Possible spoiler to new update

[Othman]

I wonder how frequent the Nomad NPCs are with those loadouts including missiles equivalent with SW. I wouldn't be too worried if that loadout was restricted with their guard systems. If otherwise though, I wouldn't feel too easy about it either. And that LF thing which could mount the MR and PARA on it.. Isn't that already inclined to change the tide in Nomads' favor?

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On the uncharted lagoons of anguish, I sail with a canoe made of my sins.

[Jihadjoe]

Regarding Mjolnir's four points.


1) What difference does this honestly make? that human ones can soak up a stray supernova? Surely it being easier to hit our hull makes it a disadvantage, one we're taking for the sake of aesthetics.

2) What exactly would people be doing in Iota anyway? There is nothing there for anyone who isn't a nomad.

3) Both an advantage and a disadvantage. Makes no odds either way. Frankly, I'd rather the nomad sheilds were graviton then 'typeless' from the point of veiw of them being useful.

4) Missiles are for the weak. We can't restock from looting ammo, and they no different from human equivalents. Who cares if the nomads have better gear. Look at the phantom kit, makes for some very interesting reading. Factions like that have to be feared, why take that away?

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[AdamantineFist]

I'm afraid I have to agree with Mjolnir on the Paralyzer front. Seems a bit unbalanced to be giving the Nomads shield-busters in my opinion. The rest of it I'm fine with.

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[Unseelie]

I will say that I wish all of these nomad weapon type X had actual names...
Also, in minor and upper major, they have 10 missiles.

@Kress: I get slews of them with missiles/cds in Major(also, they fly through the dyson sphere on major, can that be fixed?)/minor...Which is order home space. I daren't check what they have floating in Nomad home space.

I'm honestly terrified of nomad ships at this point. Course, my last encounter with player nomads was a 6 on 1 which turned into a 6 on 2, then back to a 6 on 1 as I quickly died...but even so, I was taken out frighteningly quickly. And the NPCs are quite likely the most dangerous npcs in the game. Ah woo, the nomads are supposed to have some sort of advanced tech, but I'm not sure I follow that. The humans have been adopting D'k tech direct from Valhalla for some 700 years, and adopting nomad tech from nomads for at least the last 20(how long's the order been active?)...But the fact remains that the nomads are supposed to be in a weakened state, due to getting their rears kicked quite firmly in 800. Sure, they're growing back, but the humans are growing too, and the humans didn't lose so much as the nomads.

I think the power of the nomads is vastly exaggerated by people who want their rp to be that of a species much more powerful, while the fact remains, from the cannon, the nomads got smacked pretty hard. They didn't, before the hypergate was activated and they got majorly hurt, have the forces to push out humankind, and now humankind, by and large, knows about them. You can argue that they're still pupeteering, causing things like the Tau war and the Rhienland/Liberty debacle, but as a student of history, I'd suggest that these wars make plenty of sense without an outside influence. Nations don't get along for very long, Empires especially, and we've three(four) Empires in our Four(Five) Houses.
Point being, I'm wondering why and how the nomads are kicking such a fuss, and if we should fly in and activate their hypergate again.

They've very, very dangerous NPCs/platforms. That I think is both a little unfair, and then slightly off, because they've geared up for a war in such an extreme manner...Growth can only support so many, they were pruned earlier, its beginning to make me wonder why they even bothered with subterfuge. These bits are not internally coherent.

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[Titan]

1) human equivalents have launcher models

2) human NPCs carry maximum 1 missile and 3 traincd ammo pieces each, Nomad ones have 2 missiles and 12 cds

3) human shields have specific type meaning they get more/less vulnerable to different guns, same with human guns (outside codenames), all nomad shields and guns are without a specific type, meaning they hurt everything same and get hurt same as well.

4) nomads never used to have own shieldbusters, which was one of the arguments for them having better guns, now they got a paralyzer => this creates the biggest problem now as Nomad Fighter just got much better, as it can mount paralyzers now something to other LFs can't. Ohh yes it can also mount Sidewinders... and minis.

If nomads are to get "everything same as humans" then maybe it's time to start with guns and ships?
cause better ships and guns + same missiles => better package.

1) Our things get damaged by explosives just as well as anything else, don't see your point.

2) NPC's spawned about 6 times for me since 4.85 came out. Still don't see a point, especially considering nomad NPC's are supposed to be a challenge.

3) The extra damage we do to shields or that damage we don't take because of that is rather hard to notice. Considering the amount of people we usually have on us, we might as well not have shields. Think you saw that pretty well that we usually tend to fight against oh..4-5 carriers and 10+ fighters at the same time.

4) We have one shield buster, which is a missile, not everyone uses missiles despite your obvious attempts at making everyone do so by making missiles the "I win" button of disco. Either way, taking shields off of people is never a problem, taking hull down is.


We're not supposed to get "everything same as humans" but oddly enough everything in the recent package had the exact same stats and everything as the human ones. Our LF is stronger than other LF's ...amazing. Our mini is weaker than others too. There are always compensations. Some gear has damage that's higher by a bit, in turn we get every person on the server on our tails as soon as we log on. Long time enemies in game suddenly reconcile and work together when there's a Keeper about. I was chased today by 2 carriers and 3 gunboats and I was alone in my bomber. So yeah...perhaps its a bit elitist but I believe we do deserve a break in terms of a gun that can do 5% more damage than normal ones. We allow anyone in the faction that shows a shred of common sense and decent RP skills so we're not elitist there. So...I fail to see your points. Perhaps you can explain them better.

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[Jinx]

@Jihadjoe:

ok - lets remove the missile carrying NPCs from non guard systems works for me - in iota, they can fly with 7 cannonballs on assassins, no prob. - but currently they also roam other systems.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Jihadjoe]

Suits me. I couldn't care less about the NPC's outside of Iota to be honest.

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[Unseelie]

Again, why are we supposed to be frightened/terrified of nomads? We beat them. With a handful of men, while 99.99% of Sirius didn't even notice.


And on the topic of Phantoms...Thats a real can of worms. Do you want to be harassed for superiority everywhere you go? Getting swarmed has never, and will never be, a decent reason to have better tech. Point in fact, if an order is anywhere but Minor/Delta, it gets swarmed by superior numbers. I suspect if you chilled at your home, you'd be good.


I had an idea, the other day. I wondered why, if you were getting swarmed, and you didn't like it, you didn't fly a little bit more anonymously. Seemed to work out for the Phantoms...This thought led me to believe you wanted to get swarmed...which makes me think that the assertion that you need better stuff because you're getting swarmed, rather foul.

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[Jinx]

but also - be aware of the fact that:

guard systems SHOULD be travelled by enemies sometimes. - so - don t make flying in them impossible as you don t achive anything by that. - guard systems are often sort of "outside" the vanilla RP, with much larger bases, rediculously strong defenses etc.

but if you simply "don t like visitors" at all - you could simply put 6 platforms to the jumphole with quickfiring admin cannons - then you ll sit in your nice guard system, all alone... .lonely forever, cause no one ever even tries an incursion - and wheres the point in that.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[mjolnir]

1) What difference does this honestly make? that human ones can soak up a stray supernova? Surely it being easier to hit our hull makes it a disadvantage, one we're taking for the sake of aesthetics.

2) What exactly would people be doing in Iota anyway? There is nothing there for anyone who isn't a nomad.

3) Both an advantage and a disadvantage. Makes no odds either way. Frankly, I'd rather the nomad sheilds were graviton then 'typeless' from the point of veiw of them being useful.

4) Missiles are for the weak. We can't restock from looting ammo, and they no different from human equivalents. Who cares if the nomads have better gear. Look at the phantom kit, makes for some very interesting reading. Factions like that have to be feared, why take that away?

1. They do make for a bigger target

2. I got reports from jinx that the same assasins are in delta. Even if they are only in Iota, does it still mean they need to be many times better than human guard systems?
Human guard systems don't even have bomber patrols and do just fine in defense, now Iota has patrols with 2 Bombers and 2 of these Assasins

3. It is both advantage and disadvantage, but it still shifts the balance. BHG will do less shield damage, while for example Corsair will do more.

4.
a) sure, so "strong" nomads don't need missiles then?

b) "who cares if the nomads have better gear" - everyone. To quote Blodo from the thread on dev forum, that sums it up completely:

".. it just simply isn't fun to fight people in an overpowered ship. No satisfaction comes from it, cause anybody could do the same thing really. I prefer overpowering opponents by skill than by using a broken ship."

c) "look at the phantom kit" - indeed I am looking at it right now. The answer from most people in the thread was that their kit should be roughly equal and that the player skills should decide. Right now the ships are different but balanced (RC is pretty hard to dodge with for example), guns are very good but not by far.... Nomads right now (with missiles) have many times better gear than Phantoms.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.