' Wrote:Also@Baltar: Let me ask you this: How does it make it any worse than smugglers that ignore the police RP?
You're gonna have non-role players of nearly every background. You've got non-role playing smugglers, non-role playing traders, non-role playing police, non-role playing navy, non-role playing pirates. Are we gonna make a command for ALL these non-role players? I get traders that ignore my pirate RP all the time ... give me a command that takes the trader's cargo ... or give me a command that siphons 2 mil credits from him as he docks. Same logic applies.
' Wrote:Actually, you have hit a snag in your logic here. You see only freighter and fighter class ships were desighned to ever enter the atmosphere, larger vessels can't because it's simple to difficult and to expensive to do so (think of the cost of fuel to reach escape velocity without a docking ring help, there goes your profit out the window right there).
Now we get to the nitpicking. Did you read and understand what I wrote? He was arguing realism ... and I was pointing out that there's more to it than what he was considering ... and as YOU have pointed out ... there's even more to realism. But there still is no realism to a docking ring or a mooring station. Maybe an orbiting space station for a transport to dock ... but not some stationary docking ring or mooring fixture. Unless these stations are in geostationary orbit, they would not be sitting still above the planet.
And in case you're not familiar with orbital mechanics ... I am. The closer the orbit is to the planet, the faster it moves in relation with the planet. So the near earth orbit would spin around the globe several times a day. At a high earth orbit (beyond geostationary), the object (space station or whatever) would move slower in relation to the planet. So this station would watch the planet spin multiple times for the completion of one orbit. Now ... at geostationary (slightly different from geosynchronous) ... the object would see the same point on the planet throughout its rotation. This is because it is the altitude at which the object orbits the planet at the same rate the planet spins. This is a fixed distance from the center of the planet. But we'll stop there. No need to go into the fact that a planet's gravity is not perfectly centered inside the planet.
Now ... large vessels CAN enter the atmosphere provided they have are built to withstand atmospheric pressure, gravity and the necessary powerplant to counter the force of gravity. Hmm ... seems all the FL vessels have hulls built to withstand missiles, mines (nuclear even) and various guns. I think even the largest FL vessels are built to withstand pressure and gravity. Not to mention that not all these planets in FL have atmosphere ... and some have little gravity.
In addition when one enters the atmosphere without using a docking ring they would have to do so extremely slowly (go to fast and boom, which happens in game), giving the police plenty of time to track your ship and send atmosphere fighters to intercept, the larger the ship the slower you have to go and the easier you are to track which just compounds the problem.
Yes ... lest they skip off the atmosphere as a rock skipping across a pond. But being that the planet is so HUGE ... and you'd have to catch up to him before he entered the atmosphere (which you'd have to slow down yourself lest you skip like a rock). Not to mention that a ship entering the atmosphere is still traveling at a significantly higher speed than an atmospheric fighter. The space shuttle can cross a lot of atmosphere before it slows down enough for fighters to catch up ... and then they're still struggling to keep up. Escorts for the space shuttle don't come into play until the shuttle is in the last few seconds of flight. And before they can catch up ... they gotta take off from the ground, get to altitude, figure out where you are and then intercept you ... by then you've already passed by and are a complete continent away.
Not to mention that even on Earth today we have ways of picking up flying objects, and since I doubt that there are many transports flying around in atmosphere the ship would stick out like a sore thumb. Sure you might be able to get past this thing on backwater worlds, but never the capitol of a house.
Oh you are funny. Watching sci-fi channel again eh? Have you ever looked through a telescope and tried to find something in space that you didn't already know was there? You can track the moon or any planet in the solar system because you know its orbit in relation to the earth and the sun. Now ... can we get back to REALISM? Cause this argument is based on sci-fi ... not facts.
As rare as it is, I'm gonna have to side with Baltar here. This is simply a bad idea.
On top of the concept of creating a new command specifically to deal with one subgroup, there's the potential abuse. Stop a person, get a fine, use this command to charge them yet again (not all contraband forces the cargo to be dropped - Synthetic Marijuana in Bretonia, for example)... The only way to account for that would be to make a new rule, and at that point are you really solving any problems at all? No, you're replacing one with another.
Changing game mechanics are not a substitute for roleplay. I don't know what possibly reasons you could have for thinking other wise. And if I was an Admin/Dev/Cannon or whatever right now, there's no way in hell I'd add this with the current attitude of the community. People would straight away start complaining that there are too many rules restricting their roleplay. It's just not worth the hassle, in theory it is a good idea. In practice, not so much.
There is already a solution to this problem. It may not be perfect, but it's there. Much more fun roleplaying with a Smuggler than typing in a command and going "lol, pwnt by fines"
To me that's not roleplay at all. Nor will it promote Roleplay, what it will promote is people sitting outside a planet 24/7 waiting for a smuggler to come by instead of patrolling like they should be doing.
I still think making mooring rings "Disable-able" like tradelanes is a far better option.
Ok, having read thru the rest of the thread, I actually have to do this:
I agree with Baltar. It is screwed up to have a trader quick dock on a unlawful base in front of his pirate, just as it is screwed up to have a smuggler who has been scanned WELL away from the Planet (Yes, WE do actually patrol).
Case in Point, I scan a trader at Fort Bush, he has 5000 units of cardi, I call out for him to halt , he doesnt, he takes the trade lane to Manhattan , and I order units to intercept him at Manhattan.
Said smuggler still docks on Manhattan, sells his load, then either
A. Logs off
or
B. Comes out and demands proof.
So I have to go with what Ashes said, get a command that sets the docking rings and trade lanes to Hostile To that ship. using a combination of the #t command and the command that would turn the docking ring hostile. That way the command only targets the intended target. Thats for the Lawfuls
For the unlawfuls, it could turn the unlawful bases and defenses in that system red to the pirates intended target (#t). A trader who is running from a pirate SHOULD NOT be able to dock on an unlawful base. The pirate would call ahead and reserve his spot at the party the unlawful base would hold for the trader stupid enough to dock.
Formerly known as LPI Police Chief Hull O'Brien.
Creator of Sgt. V. Price, 207th Precinct out of Chula Vista Station
' Wrote:So I have to go with what Ashes said, get a command that sets the docking rings and trade lanes to Hostile To that ship. using a combination of the #t command and the command that would turn the docking ring hostile. That way the command only targets the intended target. Thats for the Lawfuls
For the unlawfuls, it could turn the unlawful bases and defenses in that system red to the pirates intended target (#t). A trader who is running from a pirate SHOULD NOT be able to dock on an unlawful base. The pirate would call ahead and reserve his spot at the party the unlawful base would hold for the trader stupid enough to dock.
The problem with this is it could used against anyone and would be over abused. I mean imagine if someone did this with a BS NPC group around to a lawful player.
Now if there was a command that replicated the NPC scan and drop, I think that could work. I actually see no reason that couldnt or how anyone could have an objection to it because there are NPC's flying around doing it all the time anyway. The only difference is it would be less avoidable by having a good rep with the faction.
I also like the idea of disabling speed docking.
I dont think my idea is terribly prone to abuse, but it is prone to encouraging camping, and although it is in RP, it doesnt make the game more fun, quite the opposite in fact.
As for the whole transports having to use mooring fixtures and not being able to land, well, thats how the game works, thats the RP, and just because a ship can survive weapons fire doesnt mean it can survive atmospheric re-entry. I mean heck, we dont even know if the engines work in the atmosphere, and then there are the aerodynamics (or lack thereof) to consider, not to mention the bizarre placement of the engines on some ships that would tend to make me think they would tear the ship apart in close proximity to a large gravity well. What it really comes down to for me is in the original FL everything pilotable was small enough to land, the large ship vs. planets concept wasnt really developed that well due to this.
First of all, I want to apologize in advance, in case my following post is a waste. And secondly, the following is only a draft and can be modified as necessary.
Since the many arguments about the flhook command, I would like to only suggest an alternative.
What if the LPI or whatever forces are responsible for contraband prevention could have their own ''LPI's most wanted smuggler list''.
The idea is as follows, you start interacting with the smuggler, if he does not respond to your messages (You will need to try interacting a couple of times), you could make him a Shoot on Sight smuggler. Of course, to prevent the possible abuse, I also could recommend the following guidelines.
1.Make every entry addable only by the leader of the faction, or someone on the top-ranks. (So it isn't just one persons addition, and so it could be controlled more because all the reports will need to go through the higher-ups)
2.Require some evidence (2 screenshots, for example, should not be enough).
3.There should be a certain amount of reports needed to make the person an entry. (So it actually works against the ''lolwhuts'', for example, 3-5, but there could be exceptions, if the screenshots show the chat log and every odd message is yours and no reply is to be seen).
This, of course, will have to be agreed upon by the administrators, no unwarranted ''pew pew'' for you, my friends.
This will FORCE the ''lolwhut'' type of smugglers to at least reply, while not causing any RP'ing smugglers inconveniences. This would certainly deliver the metal plated boot called ''RP'' right into the ''lolwhuts'' faces.
This will not add any more work to the development team, and will be easier to watch over by the admins, since it will all be publicly available and such.
I hope this will not cause any flaming.
P.S. I think the screenshots should be added to the entries, to let others see that it is legitimate.
Also, the beginning could look like this:
"Since it seems that planets are indifferent if a cardamine filled vehicle is docking, we are forced to take serious measures, no more will this be tolerated...(the rest to be added, etc.)"
Also, a reply from administrators on the possibility of such an idea being implemented would be really appreciated.
*EDIT*
I almost forgot to add another guideline, which is very, very important.
4. To prevent any grieving, anger, and generally unpleasant emotions, the entry of a person should be limited, as in it should not be permanent, but only hold for some time period, maybe, 1-5 days, depending on the transport used, etc. After the time period, ''all will be pardoned'', at least, until that person is caught again.
@ Hack: I would support a command that turned the docking ring/mooring fixture red to the intended target. This is far more realistic than robbing the smuggler blind. And this command would only affect the player in that the lawful base/unlawful base would prevent him from docking ... it doesn't touch the character's ship/equipment/weapons/cargo/etc. And the trader/smuggler still has a fighting chance to get away.
@ tazuras: So ... you agree that Hack's command would be abused ... but deny that yours would as well. There are so so so many things in FL that are exploited. Giving a command only gives the lulwhutters and abusers more options to exploit. You cannot FORCE someone to role play if they choose not to. Create a command to deal with non-role players and they adapt and do something else. Then you sit there twiddling your thumbs waiting for someone to show up at Manhattan ... but the only thing you find are noobs exiting the planet in starfleas. The non-role players will move along and find a new avenue to exploit and the good role playing smugglers will get frustrated at trying to roll play with lulwhutters using this command. They'll just find another planet or base that buys the sames stuff. I've already given you one example ... Buffalo, Rochester and Beaumont buy the same contraband as Manhattan ... and they only pay 50 credits less per unit. So you either sell at 2500 or 2450 per unit. Either way ... you get paid. Oh ... and it would be OORP for a lawful to be "hanging around" the unlawful base waiting for smugglers. Either way ... you're not listening to my concerns ... and frankly I'm getting tired of talking to a brick wall. You're pride of ownership to this idea has blinded you. Good day sir.
Quote:@ tazuras: So ... you agree that Hack's command would be abused ... but deny that yours would as well. You have yet to tell me how it is abusable
There are so so so many things in FL that are exploited. Giving a command only gives the lulwhutters and abusers more options to exploit. It has this potential, yes. I think it can have the opposite effect as well. There are plenty of unexploitable commands
You cannot FORCE someone to role play if they choose not to. Create a command to deal with non-role players and they adapt and do something else. True, as long as that something else is more in RP I will be happy.
Then you sit there twiddling your thumbs waiting for someone to show up at Manhattan ... but the only thing you find are noobs exiting the planet in starfleas. The non-role players will move along and find a new avenue to exploit. They'll just find another planet or base that buys the sames stuff. True, as long as that something else is more in RP I will be happy.
I've already given you one example ... Buffalo, Rochester and Beaumont buy the same contraband as Manhattan ... and they only pay 50 credits less per unit. So you either sell at 2500 or 2450 per unit. Either way ... you get paid. That would be more in RP so me=happy
Oh ... and it would be OORP for a lawful to be "hanging around" the unlawful base waiting for smugglers.
' Wrote:Revised Command
Will seize the illegal cargo of certain smugglers that land on lawful bases within X minutes of use.
Can only be used:
By those with lawful ID's
Within scanner range
on transports, not freighters
It warns the person who it was used on
It does not become active for X seconds to prevent ninjaing.
Either way ... you're not listening to my concerns ... and frankly I'm getting tired of talking to a brick wall. You're pride of ownership to this idea has blinded you. Good day sir. NO U! But seriously, you aren't listening to me either, as evidenced by the above quote. I mean in a way you are helping by showing me how much opposition this faces, so thank you for that, but you aren't contributing any new ideas, you seam to think that fixing this would be impossible. I'm sorry but I just cant be that cynical.
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