In keeping with the suggestion made by the Administrators, I'm putting forward a proposal.
Quote:From now on all faction members wishing to post a rule violation report witnessed by them on one of their BHG faction characters should be requested to wait twenty-four hours before posting the report.
And if possible, ask one of the other faction members to review the report, or one of the faction leaders. Not just me. Cause I have a life as well. And I may have to ask you for advice.
What do I think of this suggestion?
We witness a lot of violations in our faction generally speaking. In the past, we have tried to deal with violations within the faction internally and through role-play. Some of you may recall how annoyed I was when a faction member reported another faction member for something relatively harmless. We now are being asked to collectively extend the same maturity and courtesy to every other player we meet by trying to talk to them first - (and you know some of the ones I'm talking about are hard to talk to at the best of times)
It's a lot to ask. I'm sure many faction members balk at the thought of devoting their time on Discovery educating others. To be honest, as a special needs teacher (which some have joked makes me over-qualified to manage the Guild faction) and soon-to-be father (yup) my real life is quite busy without my hobby becoming a parody of it. But we are an offical faction, with all the benefits it brings. I can fly through Omega 56 and say to the scans of my kid "One day all of this will be yours"
I've posted two reports ever in my time here (nearly two years now - less on the forums). I never posted reports for a whole load of things - including personal threats against myself - that I witnessed. I thought, Why bother? - someone else will deal with that.
And then I remember the nasty experiences I had that made me hate this game when I was new here. The real bone of contention is the "Engagement notice" rule. Which came about, you may recall, to prevent the worst excesses of players who wanted to turn this game into a PvP game. I know some of you are probably laughing at the idea of a member of a Bounty Hunter faction complaining about that, considering our purpose in the game is to hunt and kill pirates. But when you are trying to Role-play and you get the same three words time and time and time again...
"Enagaging BHG"
...your patience with this whole thing becomes a little thin. Especially as the rule is so vague. Well, not really, it's three words. (Is BHG one word?)
But do this
"Engaging BHG scum"
..and you are within the server rules.
Although you haven't said three words. Most likely you said /1 and relayed the message that you used /setmsg to set up earlier.
I'm not one to lose my temper with a game. Having seen my father die last Christmas and the scans of my unborn child this last month, I know to keep things in perspective.
I play Discovery for fun. It's a game. But rules are rules. You have to have them. They have to be obeyed. The engagement notice rule causes a lot of grief because people do the bare minimum to bypass it. And that's what appals me. The ridiculously low standards that people have to meet to get away with. Maybe it's just me. I think the rule should be removed. Let people choose to RP or not. I know that our members try to RP as best they can. RP opportunities are there in every encounter we have with other players. I probably need reminded of that myself sometimes.
I admit that I'm fairly lazy at reporting other players, including fellow factionites. We have to have rules, that's a given. But I'd rather talk to someone first in game, ask him/her to visit the forums and check the rules, then take screenies and read the sanction reports on the next day.
More often then not, a non-patronizing tone and a few words of advice will do wonders. Yes, this is an rp server, but I get the feeling some folks can get a bit over zealous in how they choose to deal with transgressors. It's a game. A way to blow of steam, indulge your imagination and socialize.
I get no joy in seeing someone punished. Not even the more sociopathic cases.
I think that this 24-hour cooling off period is a good idea. And one that could be extended to all other sanction reports as well.
The 3-word engagement rule? I don't have any particularly intense, dogmatic opinions on this one. Most of my opponents type out a fair amount of text. I personally am not one for writing lengthy sonnets when I have hostiles closing in at 12 k, so I can understand why someone else might feel a bit rushed.
On a final note, my condolences on you father's passing, as well as congratulations on eventually becoming a father yourself. Life and death certainly put things in proper perspective.
As a fellow faction leader, I agree with almost everything you've said here.
<pulls out knife to stab George in the back - not>
There are certain instances which are cut and dried regarding sanction reports within the rules. I've been on this server now for over a year, and active on the forums since whatever date it shows to the left of here. (Lurked for a while trying to figure out what the heck was going on.) I've filed, if memory serves me, a total of six sanction reports on other players. It's not thrilling to do, in any way. As Athenian says, we're on here to have fun. ALL of us - including that BHG scum pilot that you just blasted after he undocked with no RP whatsoever. (If anyone that was sanctioned recalls that particular event - well, it may have been you and me, or it may have been one of NUMEROUS times that happens to other players as well.)
My kids are older than many, if not most, of the people that play on this server. Fatherhood, unfortunately, does not always equate to sainthood (except to your own kids if you do the job right) and I freely admit that sometimes my temper can flare as well. So yes, I do know some of the peopele that were mentioned.
This is, first and foremost, an RP server. PvP combat is a part of RP, but it should not be ALL of your RP. Role-play - it's called using your imagination.
My son told me something this past weekend, when my wife and I went over to his place for dinner. He used to hate to read. Always had trouble with it, and never could see any use for it, really. Finally when he was in about 4th or 5th grade, I made him join a special reading class, where the kids would get rewarded for reading books. And not just any books, but those that were 'above' their regular reading level. He said at first he hated it. Then about half-way through the year, he started being able to see the images from the pages in his mind. That unlocked everything for him, and he started going through MY books - getting hooked on science fiction, fantasy, mysteries - all of the love of the written word. He thanked me this weekend for making him read and use his imagination.
And in case you're wondering, he's a computer graphic design major, starting his junior year at Purdue.
The point of that side track is this - using your imagination, and playing what-if is what this game is all about. Aliens invaded the Earth, and oh crap, they won! Kicked the snot out of us, and sent us scampering somewhere else to start all over with our tails between our legs. We've become bigger and stronger since then, and we've at least held the aliens to a standstill since then. NOW - that's the environment you're in, use your mind and figure it out from there.
Don't curse in a foreign language (or English - that was another sanction I filed.)
So yeah - if it's cut and dried, I think that the member could go ahead and file. But if it's anything else - send it up the chain for review. There are a lot of us guildmasters here. There's ALWAYS someone online in the guild (we're definitely one that's likely to drop below the 8 player minimum for a while). Talk it over with your mates. In the heat of things, it may make sense to file that. The next morning after you've had a nights sleep - then most of the time it's why bother? (There are still those extenuating circumstances where, when you review the evidence that your blood begins to boil again - THEN you file.) But mostly - yeah, what Ath said.
And congratulations on starting the fun adventure, Ath. We'll be sure to hold your spot open when you find out how much fun 4 am feeding and diaper changes are.
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.
Well, I've never been one to feel upset when I've lost a battle. I lost count how many time I've been the victim of attacks from players who didn't start with any RP. Actually I gave up counting the times back in the early days of S/D when the BHG ID's reputation was at an all time low. I've been blown up numerous times by these types of players and I've blown many of them up and moved on. I can't say that I've been to helpful for the community, however, as I don't file reports for un-announced attacks. As long as I get my RP "fix" in, any form of PvP and whether I lose or not is just water off my back.
I've read the thread about the sanctions being used as a tool by players who wish to have revenge on others. I don't know anyone in Disco who is like that and I hope I don't come across that kind anytime in the future (I'll be paying more attention to the posts to confirm). Getting a faction member to have his/her report reviewed before posting has the benefit of discouraging the current trend. I've always prefered preventative measures over punitive ones anyways. It may or may not increase the workload, it'll certainly decrease the sanctions though.
If there was such a person within the faction it is my opinion that he/she find something else to do with their spare time: like collect stamps.
I admit that I'm fairly lazy at reporting other players, including fellow factionites. We have to have rules, that's a given. But I'd rather talk to someone first in game, ask him/her to visit the forums and check the rules, then take screenies and read the sanction reports on the next day.
More often then not, a non-patronizing tone and a few words of advice will do wonders. Yes, this is an rp server, but I get the feeling some folks can get a bit over zealous in how they choose to deal with transgressors. It's a game. A way to blow of steam, indulge your imagination and socialize.
I get no joy in seeing someone punished. Not even the more sociopathic cases.
I think that this 24-hour cooling off period is a good idea. And one that could be extended to all other sanction reports as well.
The 3-word engagement rule? I don't have any particularly intense, dogmatic opinions on this one. Most of my opponents type out a fair amount of text. I personally am not one for writing lengthy sonnets when I have hostiles closing in at 12 k, so I can understand why someone else might feel a bit rushed.
On a final note, my condolences on you father's passing, as well as congratulations on eventually becoming a father yourself. Life and death certainly put things in proper perspective.
I could say this again in different words, but that might detract from the sentiment. I will quietly agree to what has been said here, and add other thoughts from a different angle.
Other players should be your friends, not your enemies. For the most part they are your fellow RPers who play this silly game about spaceships and ridiculously obfuscated diplomacy and have fun with their friends. There are a few rotten eggs to be sure, but a lot of the people that get labeled as such really don't deserve it- for one, the users of capital ships tend to get lumped into the same pile as PvP-abusers, cheaters, and other such 'scum'. I find that particular complaint to be along the lines of the complaint that playing video-games makes you violent- while it is true that violent people play violent videogames, it is far more likely that already violent people search for ways to play that out than it is for people to try and go kill others because they are lead to believe that life works like aforementioned videogames. And don't get me started on those who lump all videogame users into this pile, I for one highly doubt that Hello Kitty Adventures is a leading cause of serial murder. Along similar lines, I find it far more likely to believe that people inclined to sadistically ruin other people's fun are likely to notice the raw damage output of large ships than I do to believe that the majority of people in large ships picked them for the express purpose of mercilessly stomping on those smaller than them.
But I digress. While it may seem that a lot of people on the server are out to destroy harmony and bring suffering to our little world of spaceships, recent events have led me to believe that people are not nearly so cold-hearted as they seem. Innocent ignorance is far more common than malice. It may be hard to do, (I remember a time when I was quite harsh on the dreaded BHG cattlebruisers) but think of what might be going through their heads. If you mention "hey, you aren't supposed to cruise to catch up" and the response is "really?", you should not plant your hand into your face and call the offender bad names and/or report them. There must be some reason why they didn't know that- perhaps they weren't aware of the forums (it does happen), in which case stopping to talk to them for a minute or so is quite likely to turn a potential menace to the server into a pleasant member of the community. That minute will more than likely pay for itself in time that you don't have to spend fleeing from ganks (if the person thought this was a PvP server, for instance), listening to oorp jargon, or other such offenses.
I must cut my mini-essay short due to impending hamburgers, but I strongly believe this server is in better hands if we each take it upon ourselves to treat our fellow spaceship captains as friends rather than competitors, even if we're shooting at each other.
people are too high strung sometimes. what some members of this community need is to lean back from the monitor, and laugh it all off. it`s a game. you play it for fun. when you`re about to hurl the whole pc including keyboard and monitor out of the window, but STILL keep playing, you`re not doing anyone a favor, including yourself. cool down, laugh it off. then try again.
yes, you can get aggrivated when you undock and lasers zoom past you in the undocking sequense and you know deep down inside what`s going to follow: not rp, but an explosion of your own ship. don`t start screaming and typing vulgarities. pm the guy/girl who blew you up. so what if you lose a fortune of cargo? Hell, I`ve flown a fully loaded Shetland hauling nuclear devices into a minefield twice when I alt + tabbed. did I rage like a drunk? no, I nearly died of laughter.
it`s a game, people. play for fun. that`s why I`ve never filled out a santion report, or ever will: it`s against my priciples.
yes, some people are displaying extremely annoying behaviour. but if they want to be jerks, so be it. pm them, talk to them. if you get no respone or just some random nonsense as a reply, shrug, and load another character.
Quote:From now on all faction members wishing to post a rule violation report witnessed by them on one of their BHG faction characters should be requested to wait twenty-four hours before posting the report.
I will follow this - I'll post reports as a google document viewable by Athenian or any other GMs which wish to comment.
Having witnessed and collected evidence of a rules violation, I would recommend recording the conversation between yourself and the accused after the event. In this way, you not only have evidence of the fact that they (cruised to re-engage/gave no engagement notice/had the incorrect loadout/add at will), but also of the fact that they have either 1) not admitted their mistake and continued blindly on (thus harming yours and possibly others' gameplay) or 2) admitted their mistake and attempted to make amends (in which case, action should generally not be taken...however, in certain cases (eg: loadouts), the evidence may be useful if retained and the offender re-encountered (and still be sporting an OoRP loadout, for example)).
TBH, I think that all sanction reports should be required to include a record of your post-encounter conversation and your failed attempt to convince the accused of their misdemeanour...but I guess that could be hard to acquire in certain cases.
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