Should all main weapons(possibly minus shield busters) get a 1.5x (fighters 1.8x - 2.0x) damage buff?

[Jonathan_Archer_nx01]

Then this is not correct.
Diversification is kind of the whole point here as I wrote in the long post. In 4.84 a group of enough VHfs (8-9) could kill anything. BS, cruisers, gbs, no problem. Simply because they didn't survive long enough.

So if you wanted to raid alpha/gamma/ny etc... you'd just get huge group of VHFs and the only counter would be another huge group of VHFs. => long fight... usually VERY long.

In 4.85 raids are generally much shorter because of this diversification.

<strike>Fighters would deal more damage to each other while vs. Capital ships, they'd remain the same</strike>

I apologize. I should have typed it as:

Fighters would deal more damage to each other while Capital ships would damage them by the same rate as now.

However, with all due respect, if you can get 9 VHFs, you should be able to kill any Capital ships with them. Because it's not only VHFs, it's basically 9 people vs. 1. That's just my opinion.

And that is also what was colliding in our conversation above.

I like VHFs having some anti-cap capabilities and this idea was also a step in that direction, as you can see according to suggested modifiers in the title.

You don't like, you have a different opinion from mine on matter. I take it no prob. I'm not trying to enforce this idea at all costs. Not this one:P

[Jonathan_Archer_nx01]

Balance is a lot trickier than it looks. Please, think a little harder before suggesting something that drastic.

Not really a suggestion. Just a poll, ok?

Have to say, I have very easy time fighting anything fighter-ish in a gunboat. It's just feels so relaxed, not much effort whereas in a fighter, it's stressful, sort of tiresome, you have to work hard and very very long.

Gunboat is an entry-level capital ships. I'm not really sure about its anti-fighter bias in current version.

[Grumblesaur]

Maybe a 1.2x damage buff.

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A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.

[Robert.Fitzgerald]

A reduction in bots/bats could be beneficial, but Fighter combats are only really long when the skill levels are similar. Even if bots and bats are reduced, or weapon speed / damage is upgraded, people will still dodge, "shield camp" etc to stay alive so fights still will be long.

I don't mind long fights - they're much more enjoyable to me than being blown to bits in seconds. If I wanted to have short fights, I wouldn't fight on discovery - i'd go to another server for the short fights. Personal opinion - but it seems the balance is towards longer fights, as we have armour upgrades, good shields and many fighters can dodge well. That's the way it'll stay, I presume.

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[Durandal]

Things should stay as the are now, but I am sick and tired of people tractoring in bots and bats from NPCs. If anything should change, I think it should be the NPC drops.

[Derkylos]

Drop caps' anti-fighter (IE: Solaris, flaks (ugh), Secondaries) damage output by 2.5x (retain the damage output of such weapons as Mortars, Pulses and BS/Cruiser missiles-necessary to kill other caps), and remove fighter armour. Fighters take the same amount of time to die when fighting caps (unless the cap pilot somehow manages to land a mortar/missile hit, although these tend to 1 hit KO, now, anyways...), whilst still outputting the same DPS to caps, but kill fighters about 2.5 times as fast...

...of course we'd then need to re-jiggle the explosives damage a little to ensure they are not 2-hit-kill weapons, but that shouldn't affect caps too much, as they ignore missiles, torps (save Novas) and most mines, anyways (despite people's claims that screamers are awesome against caps, I have yet to see them used effectively in such a role...and we did fine without 'em, anyways...). Mini Razors would need to have a re-defined role, either as an anti-fighter gun (in which case, their damage can be slashed by 2.5x, to bring them in line with the new armour status), or as a method for VHFs to deal with caps, in which case they can get a speed nerf to maybe slightly more than a SN. SNs and Novas can be left as-is...Novas are a suicide weapon if used in a fighter situation, and you're never going to get a SN to the point where it hurts caps only and cannot be used by skilled pilots to kill fighters.

Only thing I can't think of a fix for is GBs, but that's probably because I don't understand the damn things, anyways...I'd be inclined to treat them as caps (nerf anti-fighter damage, retain anti-cap damage), as they have the hold space to mount cap upgrades...oh, and working out where BS primaries fit in the grand scheme of things...

At the moment, I avoid fighter combat like the plague. The few (0.0000001%) of shots that I hit with simply don't do enough damage to even scratch a shield, and I feel rather impotent spraying fire at an enemy and not even seeing it's health diminishing. On the other end, I can dodge pretty well...but that just means any fight I get into is gonna last for 30 mins or more...which I don't have the time/patience for...I'd rather go play something else...

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[tansytansey]

I disagree. I enjoy my long comabts' emensely, and the thing that annoyed me the most in the previous 4.84 version was missiles, because they made comabt far too short. It's not fun when combat lasts a short amount of time, and then you or your opponent is forced to wait a four hour lock out before they can continue roleplaying their character.

Fighter combat is fine the way it is. Sure, it takes a long time, but I believe the longest duels are the ones that test your skills the most, stretch you to your very limits of endurance. You may want combat to be much faster, but don't take that away from the rest of us.

And if weapons do recieve such a dramatic buff, I think I'll remake my Liberator and start killing Gunboats.

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[Daerune]

you tried to get fighter armour and such removed and now your trying to get the guns buffed beacuse the fights are to long?

I for one love long fights its more rewarding when you kill them and if you dont kill them well least you know you gave them one hell of a fight

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[Jonathan_Archer_nx01]

you tried to get fighter armour and such removed and now your trying to get the guns buffed beacuse the fights are to long?

Trying? I stated in the beginning that it's not even a suggestion ffs.

Drop caps' anti-fighter (IE: Solaris, flaks (ugh), Secondaries) damage output by 2.5x (retain the damage output of such weapons as Mortars, Pulses and BS/Cruiser missiles-necessary to kill other caps), and remove fighter armour. Fighters take the same amount of time to die when fighting caps (unless the cap pilot somehow manages to land a mortar/missile hit, although these tend to 1 hit KO, now, anyways...), whilst still outputting the same DPS to caps, but kill fighters about 2.5 times as fast...

...of course we'd then need to re-jiggle the explosives damage a little to ensure they are not 2-hit-kill weapons, but that shouldn't affect caps too much, as they ignore missiles, torps (save Novas) and most mines, anyways (despite people's claims that screamers are awesome against caps, I have yet to see them used effectively in such a role...and we did fine without 'em, anyways...). Mini Razors would need to have a re-defined role, either as an anti-fighter gun (in which case, their damage can be slashed by 2.5x, to bring them in line with the new armour status), or as a method for VHFs to deal with caps, in which case they can get a speed nerf to maybe slightly more than a SN. SNs and Novas can be left as-is...Novas are a suicide weapon if used in a fighter situation, and you're never going to get a SN to the point where it hurts caps only and cannot be used by skilled pilots to kill fighters.

Only thing I can't think of a fix for is GBs, but that's probably because I don't understand the damn things, anyways...I'd be inclined to treat them as caps (nerf anti-fighter damage, retain anti-cap damage), as they have the hold space to mount cap upgrades...oh, and working out where BS primaries fit in the grand scheme of things...

At the moment, I avoid fighter combat like the plague. The few (0.0000001%) of shots that I hit with simply don't do enough damage to even scratch a shield, and I feel rather impotent spraying fire at an enemy and not even seeing it's health diminishing. On the other end, I can dodge pretty well...but that just means any fight I get into is gonna last for 30 mins or more...which I don't have the time/patience for...I'd rather go play something else...

"The few (0.0000001%) of shots"

^^
That number is actually very scary and you're talking absolute sense. Increasing damage wouldn't make much more difference.

It's the frustration from inability to hit targets repeatedly that spoils the fun, not so much the damage, perhaps.

[Grumblesaur]

In that case, I vote we add +50m/s speed to all fighter energy weapons.

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A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.