ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS

[Dieter Schprokets]

Right 5 is intended to control capship abuse.

There may be better ways of controlling capship abuse. Ones that don't need more bureaucracy. Ideas please? A change is needed, but it doesn't have to be Right 5, if something else works better.

One idea is to reduce Right 5 the way Virus suggests. Official factions won't give licences, but they could have right to appeal to the Admins to remove them, with specific reasons.

Another idea is that heavy capital ships convicted of PVP Rule violations (Cruise to catchup, engage without notice, etc) would suffer greater penalties than smaller ships. Right now it's only all credits and guns. But it could be made worse, ie, removal of armour, battleship licence, even busting the ship down to starflea in an extreme case (repeat offender). Note that it is possible to PVP abuse without breaking rules, but the player that does one is also likely to do the other.

PVP violation:

-Cruisers/Dessies : Lose all credits and guns, plus armour.

-Battleships : Lose all credits and guns, plus armour, and battleship licence. (ouch)

---

[Varyag]

I would say that this would be a great idea if it wasn't for some of the things I have seen recently with some of the major factions and also some of the behind the scenes workings that have happened lately.

There has just been too many "leaders" that have taken things very personally and have been able to make this game un fun for a few people. The worst part about it is, some of these people are faction leaders or in higher ranks in these groups. Fortunately I haven't been the subject of these things, but friends of mine have.

I really just hope this doesn't lead to the bullying of Indies. There is a reason we put all players on an even field before. I think this should not happen until it has been discussed further.

---

"I looked up and all I saw was green death"

[pipboy]

Guys, if we can trust the faction leaders to not abuse their cap ships, and faction RP, etc - Why cant we trust them to keep an eye on others in their faction to make sure they do as well? Not dictate their RP of course, just make sure they don't pull crap like many of our lolcaps in RM for example that have just recently been sanctioned.

And yes, I think that we could even trust that the faction leaders would approve applications even to people that they don't like. If the application is well made, and they deny it, then the reasoning behind it could be investigated. It would all be on the forums for everyone to see. The community would sort of be policing itself in this regard.

Shoot, there are people I cant stand around here but I know they'll RP well at least.

Don't take this the wrong way guys, but people like nooblet and tink, with the other "antifaction" types would be watching things like a hawk just waiting for a chance to prove that faction leaders are corrupt brown nosing dictators. Not a single faction leader here would get away with any corrupt decisions as to who gets a cap ship. And that's why I love the "antifaction" people, I don't agree with much of what they say - but they have good points and they help keep us honest. I'm saying this in a funny way, at least I'm trying to, but it's true.

---

[Malaclypse 666]

*Sigh*

I was supposed to go on vacation last night.. I'm already behind a day due to havin' so much fun here.. they're kicking me out of the house regardless in the morning.

Quickly then...

I was flabbergasted, truly. I don't even remember the original poll, or whether I even voted.

I'm more concerned with people stealing our whales without the proper papers than our Caps... that's just me.

How will I approach this? I still haven't completely wrapped my Pineal around it. (It's kinda like that nice warm feeling you used to get when you peed in your pants, y'know? A blessing and a curse..)

Zoners are somewhat unique. We are already under a pretty bright searchlight, because we travel the whole sector, so a lot more people get to see our behaviour. And believe you me, we hear about it.

Be mellow, folks. I'll go hit the hot springs, find a cute masseuse, get my chakras hoovered, and be in touch over wireless.

I won't force anyone wanting a Juggy or Aquilon to bow to Eris, I promise. I may involve the CoZ on every call, I may not.. haven't decided.. have you seen our bloody post count from all the voting..???

As has been pointed out.. how can we know unless the opportunity is given.. Folk like the Norichka family on the Auxium? I knew nothing about em.. "Eek. another Juggy.. oh noes!" They're now within the arms of Eris, and doin' well. Ya never know until you try. And there's always Harry's Towing if the deal goes sour, right?

Or, I could pass the sceptre, the cup, and the pepto-bismol to Yoda.

Still noodling,
Mal

---

[Varyag]

That last idea is a really good one dieter. Not so much approval power but the ability to ask that the license be taken away and a better hit for PVP abuse.

Much better.

-edit- I really don't know what my issue with this is... I don't own a BS nor do I ever want one. They are kinda like an SUV to me (an inverse indication of personal size) What I do want to make sure is that I am not getting chased down by 3 dreads and a bomber swarm again in my cruiser because someone had a hissy fit about me killing a cruiser. Just because they can.

---

"I looked up and all I saw was green death"

[Boss]

I agree, though perhaps giving those who are in charge of said factions a say in the re-application process, since we get to put up with them.

Just my $0.02 on that.

---

Just go play the game and have fun dammit.

all in all the conclusion is that disco doesn't need antagonist factions, it doesn't need phantoms, it doesn't need nomads, it doesn't need coalition and it doesn't need many other things, no AIs, the game is hijacked by morons to confuse the game with their dickwaving generic competition games mixed up with troll-of-the-day.

[Eternal]

Thank you for reconsidering , Virus.

That last idea is a really good one dieter. Not so much approval power but the ability to ask that the license be taken away and a better hit for PVP abuse.

Much better.

-edit- I really don't know what my issue with this is... I don't own a BS nor do I ever want one. They are kinda like an SUV to me (an inverse indication of personal size) What I do want to make sure is that I am not getting chased down by 3 dreads and a bomber swarm again in my cruiser because someone had a hissy fit about me killing a cruiser. Just because they can.

What exactly are you suggesting here ? If people can get the Licence by simply buying the ship , then faction leaders and admins cannot possibly be sure that they are familiar with the rules , the factions sometimes tender diplomatic relationships between one another and have the proper RP for a ship like that.
Admins should not and must not be burdened with the task of accepting or denying applications for Battleships for factions that they are , probably , not familiar with. That's just one side of the coin , the other side is the one which states that admins have enough responsibilities , then playing as baby sitters for factions which have Battleships and at least 5/10 indies which want to get one. I think that that responsibility falls to the faction/s leader/s of the given NPC faction.

Again , this "power" is not something which people can abuse easily. If someone thinks he has been treated unfairly , then he can plead his case before an admin.

And there's my point again. Eternal trusts Athenian, he may not like him - but he trusts him. Athenian has earned the respect and trust that being an experienced member brings with it. Eternal know that Athenian will RP the ship properly.

Why oh why is there something wrong with this?

I agree , but have one thing to add. I don't "don't" like Athenian , quite the contrary actually.

I agree, though perhaps giving those who are in charge of said factions a say in the re-application process, since we get to put up with them.

Just my $0.02 on that.

How exactly will everyone benefit from this , if all the factions on the server suddenly loose all their power and it will take AT LEAST 2 mouths for each and everyone of them to be re-approved , again. First , there will be no factions to execute these new attachments to the server rules. Second , admins will do nothing but read faction proposals.

Since I've read your opinion about this , several times before , I'm curious to know which factions do you think deserve a "second" look ?

---

[Virus]

How exactly will everyone benefit from this , if all the factions on the server suddenly loose all their power and it will take AT LEAST 2 mouths for each and everyone of them to be re-approved , again. First , there will be no factions to execute these new attachments to the server rules. Second , admins will do nothing but read faction proposals.

Since I've read your opinion about this , several times before , I'm curious to know which factions do you think deserve a "second" look ?

I believe you are misunderstanding him. If I read his message correctly, he is saying that faction leaders should have a say in the re-application process if battleship lose their licenses and it is not a faction-controlled application process. I suppose I could be wrong.

---

Into the Maelstrom - A Measure of Salvation - Reaver Company Database

[Eternal]

I believe you are misunderstanding him. If I read his message correctly, he is saying that faction leaders should have a say in the re-application process if battleship lose their licenses and it is not a faction-controlled application process. I suppose I could be wrong.

Ah , I agree. After reading his post again , I'm not sure what he meant exactly. Sorry for that.

---

[n00bl3t]

Between the two? RP. Before either, I wonder whether or not they speak English.

But we should both step back and let more reasonable people debate this. You're not listening to me for whatever reason (from what I can tell, because you don't like me), and I'm not listening to you because I'm irritated with your insults and inaccurate implications.

Oh yes, I should stay out of an argument which directly affects me and which has been lobbied against by me at every turn. Put simply, I do not care about you. Either way. You are just another player. Indifference.

They are not insults if they are true. Eh.

my smile began to fade away when I started reading posts from some of the older members of the community who wish to ruin this exceptional and brave step for no other reason then "What MIGHT happen".

As a faction leader , I am completely FOR these changes. For the people who think that all faction leaders decided to make a skype chat and look for new ways to increase our power , you are wrong. These changes are needed and are going to add meaning to factions , not to mention that the people who are a part of them would feel like they are truly a part of the disco affairs and buisness. Not only bystanders in everything which happens around them.

My advice to everyone who is afraid of change is simple. Don't go on thinking that if you don't critizise these new improvements , you are a lesser member of the community. Just wait and see. For now , nothing has happened , there are no people who feel stepped on by the factions.

Why stamp over this threat when nothing bad has happened ? Factions haven't screwed up yet , but you think and assume they will.

Actually, it was "what has happened" but thus besides the point.

If, as a faction leader you were against these changes is when I would feel a smidgen of surprise. Honestly, just post a picture of a cat with a tin foil hat. If you need power over independents to give your faction meaning, your faction is rather pathetic.

On the same note, do not think criticising these changes makes you a lesser forum member.

As previously said, they have.

And there's my point again. Eternal trusts Athenian, he may not like him - but he trusts him. Athenian has earned the respect and trust that being an experienced member brings with it. Eternal know that Athenian will RP the ship properly.

Why oh why is there something wrong with this?

The point is, a new member does not enjoy the benefits of this.

(Of course, counter-acted by the statement of how they have to earn trust, but there is no rubric for gaining trust and trust is subjective and prone to bias.)

---

Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.