Notice: Rule loophole: Bombers

[Tomtomrawr]

From your story Sindroms the pirate would be sanctioned for not bothering to tax the person coming out of the lane. But I see your point. Before I start typing I put it on mouse chat, then as i'm typing i push my mouse to the left or right to fly around in a circle, ready to press Esc on what i'm typing and engage if nessicary.

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[17:45:39] Wolfs Ghost (Murphy): Tom, you have problems. Go kill yourself.
[19:25:12] Johnny (Jam): Tomtom, I will beat you with a spoon.
[14:22:56] Prarabdh Thakur: KILL HIM WITH A SHEEP.
[17:40:48] Eagle (Junes): Tom should be slapped with a spoon.
[11:32:18] Warspite: Thank you for being so awesome Tom. <3
[18:17:36] Metano: I love you tomtom
[20:06:24] Warspite: I will seriously give you epic head.

Edit: also, Tomtomrawr, fappin' like a boss.

[El Nino]

It might not be sanctionable, but is it making the experience good for the victim? I've always been big on making the experience fun for the other guy.

Granted, I'm a terrible pirate because of traders' tendencies to shoot or run when they know you're typing a response. I'm too merciful under most circumstances.

We'll i hope it's not sanctionable, I usually just engage the trader, when he attempts to communicate I start talking, if he does not i slowly destory his botts untill it's safe for me to talk...

That kind of works... shoot first make demands later, it also seems pretty inrole...

Then again sometimes i don't shoot at all and scream a demand at 20k, depending on my char.... but that part is out of context...

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Skype: jure.grbec
My primary char: Jose El Nino - Corsair Elder captain of the SS Greenhawk

Currently Inactive due to pursuit of life long dreams, will be back...*edited* As promised am back.

[Doc Holliday]

And here lies your loophole. I've said it before and been a victim of it more than once.

6.19 Pirates have a right to deal as much damage as they see fit before or after demanding money from a trader ship, but killing trader ship before demanding money or cargo is not allowed.

So they can attack without notice but:

6.21 Attacking without an engagement notice is not allowed. All attacks must be preceded with some form of RP, regardless of NPC faction diplomacy

Says they cannot. I've never liked 6.19 as I think it is abused. Most pirates I encounter will make their demands first and might RP but they keep their guns quiet. Those pirates are likely to do better with me than those who "soften you up" first. I've had some that don't know how to read the opponents red meter very well and I've gotten an "oops" after I was killed.

I've said before, I'll say it again, the pirate who fires on me first will get nothing. Hopefully, he/she can make something out of what they tractored in. Big difference in what they would make. Something to consider, pirates.

Oh yeah, I much prefer donations instead of tax. It sound so less........socialistic.

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[MFE]Med Force One | Tales of Recovery|Med Force Enterprises

[eyvind]

And here lies your loophole. I've said it before and been a victim of it more than once.

So they can attack without notice but:

Says they cannot. I've never liked 6.19 as I think it is abused. Most pirates I encounter will make their demands first and might RP but they keep their guns quiet. Those pirates are likely to do better with me than those who "soften you up" first. I've had some that don't know how to read the opponents red meter very well and I've gotten an "oops" after I was killed.

I've said before, I'll say it again, the pirate who fires on me first will get nothing. Hopefully, he/she can make something out of what they tractored in. Big difference in what they would make. Something to consider, pirates.

Oh yeah, I much prefer donations instead of tax. It sound so less........socialistic.

This may be a minor correction, but it is important. 6.19 is regarding the demand, 6.20 is regarding the attack. Pirates are not allowed to engage without role-play, but that role-play does not need to contain a demand for money. 6.19 merely says that the demand for money must come before the trader is destroyed.

The only real issue with pirate-trader situations, for me, is that of CDs, not any form of damaging attacks. That's a different issue from the one in discussion here, though.

Also, I have never liked people tacking a negative connotation to socialism. There are plenty good reasons for not calling pirate taxes taxes, so use them instead. At least don't use socialism as a reason by itself, qualify it.



There is extensive etiquette for pirates and traders, communication that goes beyond words; the rules are lenient enough to allow these wide nuances in behavior so my advice is to take all but the most blatant rule-violations as actions not in the context of the server rules but as actions in the context of this etiquette.

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<span style="font-family:Agency FB">Good Morning!</span>

[Baltar]

Perhaps you missed "while you type" part, as you have to type in your message to communicate and RP without 3rd party software.

The best way I found to avoid these engagement exploiters is to watch the chat window all the time and monitor if any of them enter the system you are in, or are in the system you are about to enter. If yes I will just dock and log, a bit paranoid I know, but at least you are denying them their "fun"

About "type killers" I keep it to be a spineless action, just to wait for the moment when your opponent decides to answer to win a fight.

hmpf,,, perhaps it is time to utilise those preset message slots for some witty and insulting answers hahh!

I read the "while you type" part ... can't express how frustrating it has been for me (as a pirate) to try to reason with lawfuls who just wanna kill a pirate. Way too many times my pirate vessel has been destroyed "while typing". Once guns start blazing people stop reading the text ... what I call blood lust. From what he described of his encounter ... he made his statement to leave and began typing a second round of text. Like I said earlier ... he made a demand to leave ... what should a pirate do ... shrug their shoulders? Look at it this way ... a pirate says "pay up trader, the price is 500k" and the trader opens up his guns or runs ... wouldn't this be the same?

Like many of you may now know I have never played on the official discovery server but I have to disagree with this complaint about attack with warning.

First, supprise, How in the world are you ever supposed to supprise attack anyone with this rule in place.
Come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Read the rules sir ... reason this particular rule came about is because this is a "role play" server. Its not a PVP slaughter fest.

From your story Sindroms the pirate would be sanctioned for not bothering to tax the person coming out of the lane. But I see your point. Before I start typing I put it on mouse chat, then as i'm typing i push my mouse to the left or right to fly around in a circle, ready to press Esc on what i'm typing and engage if nessicary.

Read what he wrote ... was he in a trade vessel? I believe Sindroms was in a combat vessel. There's no demand for cash required if you're not a trader. If he was in a trade vessel, why would he demand the pirates leave? Makes no sense. And if he were in a trade vessel and they blew him to bits without making a demand then yes a sanction would be appropriate and we wouldn't be talking about this here.

And here lies your loophole. I've said it before and been a victim of it more than once.

So they can attack without notice but:

Says they cannot. I've never liked 6.19 as I think it is abused. Most pirates I encounter will make their demands first and might RP but they keep their guns quiet. Those pirates are likely to do better with me than those who "soften you up" first. I've had some that don't know how to read the opponents red meter very well and I've gotten an "oops" after I was killed.

I've said before, I'll say it again, the pirate who fires on me first will get nothing. Hopefully, he/she can make something out of what they tractored in. Big difference in what they would make. Something to consider, pirates.

Oh yeah, I much prefer donations instead of tax. It sound so less........socialistic.

Logic flaw Doc ... sorry ... but those two rules apply to different situations.

Rule 6.19 applies ONLY to a piracy role play event. The pirate can take down shields and drop the hull integrity to ... shall I say it ... "force" the trader to role play with the pirate. This rule is designed for combat vessel (pirate) vs trade vessel (trader ... non-combat vessel). And this rule is supposed to keep the pirate in line ... to not act like a terrorist.

Rule 6.21 on the other hand applies to a PVP event. This rule is designed for combat vessel vs combat vessel.

Also ... the discussion at hand is not one of piracy anyway. Sindroms came out of the lane in a combat vessel. I'll re-read to make sure. You do the same.

[Doc Holliday]

Logic flaw Doc ... sorry ... but those two rules apply to different situations.

Rule 6.19 applies ONLY to a piracy role play event. The pirate can take down shields and drop the hull integrity to ... shall I say it ... "force" the trader to role play with the pirate. This rule is designed for combat vessel (pirate) vs trade vessel (trader ... non-combat vessel). And this rule is supposed to keep the pirate in line ... to not act like a terrorist.

Rule 6.21 on the other hand applies to a PVP event. This rule is designed for combat vessel vs combat vessel.

Also ... the discussion at hand is not one of piracy anyway. Sindroms came out of the lane in a combat vessel. I'll re-read to make sure. You do the same.

Logic flaw? I think not! The only thing the "softening up" process does more often than not, at least with me it does, it make someone very angry. I may play a diplomat but he is a diplomat with a very hot temper and a short fuse but that's beside the point. I have yet to rp a pirate out of a tax. I usually get "pay or die" which is week. But, I do keep a list on the board by my machine of those who use our fine facilities (Freeports) and still find the need to tax us. Yes, the word is getting out.

If they decide to just start shooting, well, I'll take my chances even though I will most likely lose, especially now since most pirates pirate in gunboats.

@eyvind,

Also, I have never liked people tacking a negative connotation to socialism.

I'll call it as I see it, like it or not but I'm not hyjacking this thread on it. If you don't like me calling it this way, start a thread and call me out on it.

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[MFE]Med Force One | Tales of Recovery|Med Force Enterprises

[Baltar]

Logic flaw? I think not! The only thing the "softening up" process does more often than not, at least with me it does, it make someone very angry. I may play a diplomat but he is a diplomat with a very hot temper and a short fuse but that's beside the point. I have yet to rp a pirate out of a tax. I usually get "pay or die" which is week. But, I do keep a list on the board by my machine of those who use our fine facilities (Freeports) and still find the need to tax us. Yes, the word is getting out.

If they decide to just start shooting, well, I'll take my chances even though I will most likely lose, especially now since most pirates pirate in gunboats.

@eyvind,

I'll call it as I see it, like it or not but I'm not hyjacking this thread on it. If you don't like me calling it this way, start a thread and call me out on it.

*headdesk* My point is this ... rule 6.19 applies ONLY to a piracy event (combat vessel vs trade vessel) ... rule 6.21 applies to PVP (combat vessel vs combat vessel) ... that's the difference between the two rules.

Now ... sorry you haven't come across me ... but don't throw the baby out with the bath water. If I based my opinion on lawfuls completely on encounters with those that just give me the "die pirate" then I'd be a bit prejudice ... correct? Not all pirates get paid ... and some let they're target go (done it many times myself). But pirates who encounter those traders that give us the "just kill me its cheaper" line don't do your argument any good. Now ... did you go back and read or are you just on the attack?

On the gunboat bit ... have you ever tried to take on a container transport in a fighter? As you say ... MOST pirates are in gunboats ... well that's probably because MOST traders are in huge transports. Size of the pirate is usually gonna be dictated by size of the target. Fighters are great against freighters (with small cargo holds) but they can barely get the shields to go down on a huge transport. And with those transports carrying hundreds of bats/bots and 12 class 7 turrets (on the CT) ... fighters don't stand a chance. So ... when this server starts to see more small freighters we might see the population of pirates in fighters go up in kind. I guess what I'm saying is that your complaint about most pirates in gunboats is falling on deaf ears ... its a mute point.

[Guest]

In short we have a ****load of rules that do bugger all because of their complexicity?

[Baltar]

In short we have a ****load of rules that do bugger all because of their complexicity?

In a sense ... yes.

Problem comes when people try to apply a rule where it does not belong. Piracy rules should be completely separate form PVP rules ... they deserve their own sections within the rule set. And the rules need to make clear that piracy is a specific event between a pirate (fighters, bombers, gunboats) and a trade vessel (freighters and transports). The rules must also make clear that PVP is a specific event between two or more combat vessels (fighters, bombers, gunboats, etc ... NO freighters or transports in the mix).

[farmerman]

In a sense ... yes.

Problem comes when people try to apply a rule where it does not belong. Piracy rules should be completely separate form PVP rules ... they deserve their own sections within the rule set. And the rules need to make clear that piracy is a specific event between a pirate (fighters, bombers, gunboats) and a trade vessel (freighters and transports). The rules must also make clear that PVP is a specific event between two or more combat vessels (fighters, bombers, gunboats, etc ... NO freighters or transports in the mix).

What about pirating in a transport then? Or a freighter and a fighter are fighting?

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