' Wrote:Hackers and Junkers cooperate on a neutral basis, neither control the other's interests.
I disagree with you that the Hackers would not know of a Corsair-Junker liaison, strongly disagree, but it would undoubtedly depend on circumstances. If the liaison involved artifact trade inside Liberty, the Hacker solution would be extreme and effective. I don't see how Corsairs could maintain such activity. Corsairs don't have any power in Liberty, and the Junkers can't but wouldn't oppose the Hackers or Rogues. If I misunderstand, elaborate.
In terms of diplomacy, let me reiterate: it is not a problem that the Corsair stance toward Rogues is hostile, even if the reciprocal stance is neutral. The Corsair-Hacker diplomacy, on the other hand, is definitely all red.
Perhaps I should be more concise in this post: you have not taken any wrong steps in your role-play and your conclusions are fundamentally correct.
Perhaps my words were not chosen well. "Liason" is not in anyway meant to mean treaty or agreement. I'll ask this, Why would Junkers tell Hackers anything? Why would they tell Hackers that there are Corsair Smugglers running Artifacts to their bases. Junkers run both sides of the fence, they do not blow their cover.
Junkers certainly can oppose the Hackers and Rogues but choose not to to maintain their stance and hold. They are not usually technologically as capable as Hackers, but I can guarantee they outnumber them. Nor are they as fierce as the Rogues, but again, I would say Junkers outnumber the Rogues, nor are they stupid.
I don't see how someone can say "Lane hackers have the majority of artifact operations in Liberty" when Corsairs and Hackers/Rogues are enemies. Again, I would need to see some forum RP for me to consider that statement legitimate.
Thanks for the diplomacy and concise clarification. I thought the RP was ok. It's good to have outside confirmation.
' Wrote:Not to intrude and nothing to do with any specific role play but for clarification--Rogues support the WAR on Outcast side and make capital ships for use in it--the majority being assumed to be deployed on the frontlines?
Am I wrong on this--hasn't this always been the case? its mentioned in news and rumors or was.
You're welcome to join in Tinkerbell.
That's what I thought so too. There was a huge uproar in 4.84 about the Rogues being a little less supportive of Outcasts and leaning more to the centre with the Corsair/Outcasts relations. I don't know what became of that and don't know where to look. I just spent 45 minutes in the Diplomatic threads looking for stuff related to this. As far as I know rogues have become "less hostile" but that is not necessarily reciprocated from the Corsair end.
' Wrote:Alcatraz is mentioned on the infocard as playing host to Corsairs in Liberty space...I guess that implies non-hostility in order for them to land there?...
I don't know. That might be something that needs to be looked at in the infocard "fixes" since that would fly in the face of the other Corsair / Rogue relations that I know of.
Still, has the Corsair elders or OPG (head) given a transmission to not threaten Rogues or their allies?
Sovereign Wrote:Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.
Lane Hackers and Liberty Rogues may have been involved in the artifact trade in vanilla, but there doesn't seem to be much evidence of it now. I wanted to further pursue the dealings with the Hogosha but there was no active hogosha players to interact with back then.
I do not know where you get your figures from Dancing Lady. You're not correct about Leiden now, as it produces Counterfeit Software. Artifacts are still sourced further north in Kusari, not in Galileo. Your figures about the artifact trade in Liberty don't seem to have any solid basis either.
EDIT: I haven't read through the whole thread, its just a reply on something Ive already read.
Let me just explain a few things here.
For one, there is no neutrality as corsairs are not usually found in Liberty.
Quote:Liberty Rogues
ALLIES:
Outcasts, Lane Hackers, Mollys
ENEMIES: Corsairs, Xenos, Bounty Hunters, House Police, House Militaries, House Corporations
I think this is self explanatory.
BUT
In SP you see that one of the rogues does smuggle artifacts, so SOME kind of neutrality exists, even if its just the rogues being opportunists.
Once the corsairs start messing on our turf like for example destroying cardi shipments and pirating, sure, all neutrality is broken and they are raped.
' Wrote:@ Nighthawk:
I hope you took my initiated RP the other day ok? In reality I'm a nice guy. My Corsair isn't so nice. Let me know if I came across too harsh or whatever.
Quote:however that's a small point. I contacted LR-Nervous.Energy (which I later found out was Nighthawk)
Just a quick correction, Nervous Energy wasn't me. It was one of our newer Rogues, SheleSt. He sent me the chatlogs via skype, because I saw opportunity for some forum roleplay in the diplomatic channel, possibly leading on to in-game roleplay. His character is female, though.
Quote:Fourthly, I was not, and am still not aware of any treaty that is on with the Liberty Rogues between the Corsairs. If there is one please let me know. It might not change my play, but I'll take it into consideration. At the moment my corsair does not know of any treaty and will act as such.
As far as I'm aware there is no treaty either. However, since Liberty is outside of Corsair ZOI, we list you as neutral. But as far as we're concerned, anyone barging in on our turf is hostile. We even shoot Outcasts on occasion.
Note that while we consider Corsairs neutral, the respective NPC factions (LR and Corsairs) regard each other as hostile. This is something we're hoping to change, after all we have no interest in the war between the Outcasts and Corsairs. We just want to make profit, and the artifact trade opens new doors.
' Wrote:Just a quick correction, Nervous Energy wasn't me. It was one of our newer Rogues, SheleSt. He sent me the chatlogs via skype, because I saw opportunity for some forum roleplay in the diplomatic channel, possibly leading on to in-game roleplay. His character is female, though.
As far as I'm aware there is no treaty either. However, since Liberty is outside of Corsair ZOI, we list you as neutral. But as far as we're concerned, anyone barging in on our turf is hostile. We even shoot Outcasts on occasion.
Note that while we consider Corsairs neutral, the respective NPC factions (LR and Corsairs) regard each other as hostile. This is something we're hoping to change, after all we have no interest in the war between the Outcasts and Corsairs. We just want to make profit, and the artifact trade opens new doors.
Ok cool. Noted that Nervous isn't you. Did they take it fine? Please apologise from me (person) to Shelst (person) if they took it wrong. If they are ok with it, then all is good.
I'm glad you posted it. It's sparked off some interesting RP both on the forums and within the OPG itself. My screenies were not working. I have plans for <strike>Gentile</strike> Sparta and some OPG bag kicking. It's his turn to do something and post in return.
Sovereign Wrote:Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.
I think a bit of this Rogue/Corsair Nuetrality thing comes from a bit of role play that was bandied around a couple of months ago that i believe was initiated by Del...
The vibe i got was that the Rogues wanted to pursue a bit more independance from the Outcasts and made a few tentative "You dont shoot me we dont shoot you" gestures to the Corsairs - who were all too ready to get access to a few more outlets for artifacts in liberty. Coming in the wake of allegations that the Outcasts were getting cosey with the Nomads - this was easy to explain in RP.
As far as i know though, it was never codified and not really followed through with anything concrete.
From the Corsair point of view - you have to realise that Corsairs are an extremely confident, imperialistic and expansionist bunch of people - they have absolutely no problem being in Liberty, they have no fear of the Rogues (who they see as a small time operation) and even if they couldnt go into Liberty proper they would still SAY they could.
Its all about the bluster you see:)
I realized when I woke up this morning that I had misspoken quite significantly. In my first post, I greatly confused Artifact trade with Cardamine trade. Though the economic conclusions are nearly identical, little of the rest makes any true sense.
The Lane Hackers of Leiden base are really the only Hackers that support Artifact smuggling inside Liberty. The general attitude toward smugglers is that of direct opposition. Most Artifact shipments -- including those of the Junkers -- are often destroyed rather than pirated.
Just wanted to correct myself, it seems the rest of these issues have been more or less fully cleared up by now.
Can I just clarify...Hung Small never got the boot. Hell id never turf out an OPG for verbal whiplashing some pathetic little wannabe pirate outfit.(JK) What he did get was some Arr Pee and a bit of stick from his boss involving the rest of the OPG chasing him down shooting his maingy wannabe pirate arse to bits and then dragging him back to sparta who is going to righfully cut of his nads. After that happens he will receive said promotion and be much more content with life as a pirate and will be much less inclined to chase yor women.
Hung small is agood friend and a good RP member of the OPG.
On a more curios note. OPG operates a smuggling group known as the OTC most of which are smuggler ID junker IFF pirate transports. Other corsair factions or other smuggling groups may feel they need the rogues. OPG does not.
It is by our grace that you are allowed to live.
(cant leave any post without leaving an imprint of pure imperialism from sairdom)
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