Enough nerfing - give us back some decent ships

[TheMillers]

Of course, if they want to make it a battleship, buff it's armor, give it 12-14 class 10 turrets so it can use bs weapons, a light bs powerplant like the osiris, and give me a free battleship license, then I'll be fine with that idea =P

So if we BHG's donate the amount for your battleship license, you are OK with a buff for both the geb, and the BHBS ?
*starts passing the collection box around...*

Seriously, I would say that the *perceived* imbalance actually fits with canon - The Order has had experience with cap ship warfare and manufacture, longer than the BH's, as well as having the Osiris technology from before the nomad encounter in vanilla FL.

A BH on the other side, would generally use smaller ships for their hunts, so thats where they excel. The BH's have had to catch up with regards to capital ship warfare, when they went into what the Order percieved as their area of responsibility for the good of humanity - The nomad infested omicrons.

So canon-wise I think the balance is right.

That there might need to be done some finetuning of the gameengine mechanics, in the form of a proper hitbox for the Mako, appears to me from this thread, that both sides agree upon. If said hitbox was fixed, I'm pretty sure that the Mako won't be percieved as such a bad suicidal coffin to fly in a capship battle.

Cpt. Miller, of the BHG|Core vessel "Miller's Draft"

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Out of bats, Out of bots, Out of torps - Down to harsh language...

[Aduka]

hmm..dont forget to mention

BHG Bomber compare to Order Bomber, BHG Bomber can almost use as a fighter while Order Bomber is a giant block, and cannot fight as a fighter, that WILL make a difference in fleet combat. look at BHG GS compare to Order GB, same thing, BHG GS can totally pwn an Order GB cuz it's agility, and can dodge bomber SNAC easier.

BHG has advantage over Order on GB, Bomber, and Cruiser. But Order has advantage over BHG on Battleship and BC.

fair enough to me

I have both bombers,BHG and Order one,there isnt much difference,if you know how to fly it...

Every bomber has its own disadvantage and advantage...BHG bomber has a much bigger hitbox than any other bomber...while the order has bigger hull and can store up to 105 nanobots/battery's

Order bomber isnt at all that bad,actually i find it very good

And dont compare BHG GS with Order GB,its ridiculous instead of that compare Orca with Order GB...

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[Dashiell]

ok, my 2 cents:

about the trade off of strong fighters/bombers and weak caps. that`s quite lame to be honest.
the BHG have good fighters so their caps should be lame, weak and eaten alive? I wonder how, for example, corsair players would like it if we were to say that corsair caps are great. too great. so let`s make their fighters and bombers weak, useless ships. is that fair? no. does it ruin the fun and gameplay for said corsair players? yes.

the turning rate on a BS is not nearly as good a strong point as the turning rate on a small craft. why? because most cap battles trun into a whaling competition. and the Mako`s hitbox is so wide, that dodging is far less effective than it should be. also, the BHG turrets have pathetic firepower, but extended range. also quite useless when your target charges at you with 90 m/s and sits in your face 10 seconds later.

then there`s the appalling hitbox in the mako. in the video I posted yesterday you can see me dodging shots. only, I still get hit due to the hitbox being epically MASSIVE. good example is the mortar that Black Sail flings at me. I pull up and dodge to portside. the mortar misses me, but still registers as a hit. (and no, it didn`t hit the tail of my ship, since it was way out to the left.)

then there`s the argument that "good pilots can kill this and that with it". excuse me, but we`re not all keyboard gods. please allow the lesser gods some (fair) fun as well. would we be nerfing the Sabre because Phate kills so much in it? should the Pirate Transport be castrated because Spazzy owns in it? not everyone is an epic pilot. some people would like to enjoy their ship with just modest skill to fly it, without paying the price for it 30 seconds later when blowing up.

then there`s the capwhore/gank argument. quite unfair. morons are everywhere. remember the old Order? 3 fighters and a stray dog. that was the Order (no offense lads) then the order got caps. now one has to wade through Gebs, Hathors, Osirisses and Resephs. same goes for the Outcasts and Corsairs. people buy caps with which they know they`ll see action. Order, Corsairs, BHG and Outcasts are therefor the most prominent. but I don`t see the Corsair ships getting nerfed. nor the Order ones. they shouldn`t be imho. or the LABC and Carrier. spammed like mad. used by players who care a wee bit less about fairplay. so please, drop this (outdated) argument. The BHG should be given a fair fighting chance.

as it stands now, the BHG players are being punished for the dumbwits that abused BHG caps in 4.84. sure, there are still some loose cannons. but they are everywhere, and in every faction. so please, stop bashing the current bhg ships for that.

all in all some BHG caps need a wee bit of tweaking.

The bullhead`s main rival is the Geb and the Order RC. versus the RC it makes a fair fight. same for the Preafact. but the Geb kills it while reading the newspaper. the Geb is a bit of a weird ship, more a light BS than anything else. but fact is, the Bullhead needs to deal with them. but it can`t. solution: send a Mako after a Geb. hardly fun for the Geb pilot: all he can do is run or die.

Then there`s the Mako. a fat hitbox, weak hull and underpowered weapons. used to "rush in"and "overpower". right. overpower my steely buttocks. it has less firepower, less armour and a bigger hit signature than its main enemy: the Osiris. is it just me, or is overpowering a far stronger ship a bit of a poor tactic? the legate also eats it alive but that`s not really the Mako`s fault. Mako is a light BS, Legate a dreadie. if the Mako were on par with the Legate something is seriously off. either the Mako is too strong, or the Legate too weak.

as it stands now, the BHG caps stand no fair chance against their main rivals.

solution: give em a slight buff (don`t overpower them, that`s no fun either) or make a new "heavy BS"/Dreadnought or something than can fill the gap between the Mako and the Legate/Osiris

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[reavengitair]

I have both bombers,BHG and Order one,there isnt much difference,if you know how to fly it...

Every bomber has its own disadvantage and advantage...BHG bomber has a much bigger hitbox than any other bomber...while the order has bigger hull and can store up to 105 nanobots/battery's

I have both and I can tell you, the BHG one is better.

It has more guns, it has more agility, and it is harder to hit due to its virtical shape. On the other hand, the Order Bomber is a damn brick.

[Athenian]

So to summarise:

BHG have weaker capships because it's canon
BHG have weaker capships because other wise they would be abused by players
BHG have weaker capships because they are not restricted
The Order and Corsairs have stronger capships even though they are not restricted
BHG don't have weaker capships
BHG have weaker capships
The BHG gunship is very powerful
The BHG gunship is not powerful enough
The BHG gunship is just right
The BHG have better fighters and bombers
The BHG don't have better fighters and bombers
The Orca is a weak gunboat
The Orca is an average gunboat
The Orca is a strong gunboat
The BHG should spam bombers
The BHG shouldn't spam bombers
The BHG is capable of defeating its main enemies if it just tried different tactics
The BHG is populated by inexperienced noobs who will never defeat their main enemies
The BHG should fight Outcasts more
The Outcasts have a shipline capable of destroying anything the BHG throw against it
The Outcasts don't have a shipline capable of destroying anything the BHG throw against it
The BHG should raid Gamma, but not in caps
The BHG shouldn't raid Gamma ever
The BHG shouldn't raid Minor ever
We've learned nothing about these ships from the two weekly events in which we have tried various combinations of all ship types
We've learned a lot about these ships from the two weekly events in which we have tried various combinations of all ship types
BHG players lack skill
Order/Corsair players are more skilled
Things were great in 4.84
Things weren't great in 4.84

This is the sum total of most forum debates we've tried to have about this ship line. Thanks for the input. Maybe we could have a poll and include all of these options?

Incidentally the thread was about the bigger end of the scale - the Destroyers and upwards.

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[Aduka]

I have both and I can tell you, the BHG one is better.

It has more guns, it has more agility, and it is harder to hit due to its virtical shape. On the other hand, the Order Bomber is a damn brick.

No its not,try flying praetorian(which is good bomber too) and after it try flying order bomber and tell me the difference...You know Bombers and fighters aren't just about agility...look at sabre its not the most agile VHF but its the most used and most liked VHF,why?

BTW...You could check Order bomber before you posted here,it has 5 forward firing guns just like BHG bomber,only order has 4 guns + 1 turret,BH has 5 guns...Plus 90% or Order bombers have coladas and tizonas mounted,while BHG use only Debi's..

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[reavengitair]

No its not,try flying praetorian(which is good bomber too) and after it try flying order bomber and tell me the difference...You know Bombers and fighters aren't just about agility...look at sabre its not the most agile VHF but its the most used and most liked VHF,why?

BTW...You could check Order bomber before you posted here,it has 5 forward firing guns just like BHG bomber,only order has 4 guns + 1 turret,BH has 5 guns...Plus 90% or Order bombers have coladas and tizonas mounted,while BHG use only Debi's..

Perhaps you should also consider I have the Praetorian, the BHG bomber and the order bomber and that I use them all quite a bit.

Perhaps you could also consider that the order cannot use corsair shield busters, and if they do, only a maximum of two.

Perhaps you could also check out that bombers are not all about agility, but agility does play a factor in bombers. Would you fly the most powerful bomber if it had the handling of a battleship?

[JakeSG]

@Millers: Role-play should -never- come into balance. Not even if it's so ooRP it makes your head scream. If we were to follow RP, Phantoms would be instakilling Cruisers and Battleships would have ten times as many guns with the power to destroy a small planet in each.

@Dashiell: 'solution: give em a slight buff (don`t overpower them, that`s no fun either) or make a new "heavy BS"/Dreadnought or something than can fill the gap between the Mako and the Legate/Osiris' - You do realise that the Osiris is a light BS, right? Says a lot that our ships are so overnerfed that we need a heavier alternative simply to kill one of the lightest ones in the game :/

Personally, I don't own any caps. I prefer my bombers. However, after looking at those stats the differences are clear, and they -really- are ridiculous. Enough to cause mindbreak.

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For the Core.

[Zeltak]

Gunships and Gunboats in general should be deadly against Fighters and Bombers, which they aren't really anymore. I like the challenge they provided in 4.84.

[globalplayer-svk]

real hard to hit at a distance.

BH gunship: It needs 6 turrets with full firing arcs. Nuff said.

ehm, i disagree.
most of you know my skills in piloting corsair gb. (Tinky[TBH])
i purchased a bh gunship, with basich armour 8 upgrade. (and all know that you must fly it total different as corsair gb which is maked as tank)

i tryed 4 times fights against different people in corsairs gb (noone from them knew that it is me...)
reason?:
corsair gb destroyed/cruised to base without ability to destroy shield on my bh gunship. and you will say that it need more forward firepower?...
that ship is so damm agile and small that your enemies have no chance to make bigger damage to oyu when you use yoru cd and guns correctly...

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