BHG caps discussion

[Dashiell]

in continuation of this thread: http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=45476 I`d like to continue CIVILISIED discussion here. no "I hate hate all bhg they deserve weak ships". no "I wanna lolpwn with my Mako and kill 3 dreadnoughts before I go down". and no talking about bombers, fighters or anything under dessie class. this thread is to discuss the issues around the bigger BHG caps: the Thresher, Bullhead and Mako

sum up of the issues discussed in the last thread:

- Mako hitbox is too big ( may be solved thanks to Millers : http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?ac...=62&t=45684 )

- Mako has too little hull strenght

- Mako can`t fight an ossie equally (don`t get started about dreddies again, they are supposed to be meaner, bigger and better)

- BHG turrets are too weak

- Bullhead can`t face its direct opponent: the Geb on equal ground.

- hitbox on other BHG caps may need work.

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[Guest]

BHG caps are supposed to be weak you know

[Dusty Lens]

BHG caps are supposed to be weak you know

Please gain something from the example Sindrom has provided, if your post looks similar to his you haven't contributed anything constructive to the discussion. The discussion shall remain on topic, posts shall be constructive and shall be maintained in a respectful manner.

Or, well, lockzorz.

Danka.

P.S. That was not a flame, Sindrom was simply helping me out. There is no way he would ever post something as useless as that under his own power.

[Birdtalon]

Judging by the many times the BHG has pwned The Order, I dont really think that their ships need improving much.

The Geb isn't designed to be a Battlecruiser as such, It is designed to carry fighters - therefore it is a much heavier ship. Unfortunitly due to that not being possible on this server it seems to have reverted to "Battlecruiser mode". Maybe the Geb needs nerfing, not the Bullhead made stronger. It might cut down on the Order capspam a bit.

EDIT: I hope this post is less useless than the one two above - even if it is slightly more fail.

- Birdy

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[X-Lancer]

then let's talk about Order Bomber vs BHG Bomber, Order fighter vs BHG Fighter.

Order bomber is anti-cap only, while BHG Bmber can even against Order VHF.

so here is the balance between Order and BHG

Ships
BHG-------Order
Fighter > Fighter
Bomber > Bomber
GS/GB > GB
Cruiser = Cruiser
BC < BC
BS < BS

Faction Weapon
BHG-------Order
Fighter > Fighter (faster speed, easier to hit)
Bomber = Bomber (nothing to compare on weaponry)
GB > GB (Order has bigger damage i suppose)
Cruiser < Cruiser
BS < BS


so stop whining, fix the hitbox, Mako will be fine. Maybe WITHOUT fixing the hitbox, Mako is still fine, consider BHG Bomber is so over-powered


plus, as to support Sindroms
look at the line of BHG ships, they turn fast, small profile, with a weaker powerplant, weaker hull.

Osiris is a special case in Sirius, since its design it's stolen from Liberty.


dont shoot me for this, IMO, BHG shouldnt even have caps bigger than a BC, they have their powerful bombers, a Big-enough BC for defensive purpose.


<<<Edited>>>

[Lunaphase]

from what i have seen, a mako can obliertate a osirus unless the mako is fool enough to get jumped from behind. Bhg weapons are quite good, efficency wise. You also get 2 more turrets and much more armor than an osirus for almost the same turn. Frankly, the bhg ships are balanced, the order ones need work.

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[Guest]

Dusty, be glad it's midnight and i have a bottle next to me so i cannot tell if you are making fun of me or was that a compliment.


What I ment to say is, BHG caps are Light capitals. They are not suposed to solo their foe without backup, their uniqueness is the survivabiliy in battle provided by their low armor and high speed.

[X-Lancer]

from what i have seen, a mako can obliertate a osirus unless the mako is fool enough to get jumped from behind. Bhg weapons are quite good, efficency wise. You also get 2 more turrets and much more armor than an osirus for almost the same turn. Frankly, the bhg ships are balanced, the order ones need work.

Osiris has better armour than Mako

[Birdtalon]

Yeh, thats a good statement there. Although Osiris is a light battleship it also says Assasult Battleship in the infocard too. So threfore it needs sufficent firepower.

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[TheMillers]

- Mako hitbox is too big ( may be solved thanks to Millers : http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?ac...=62&t=45684 )
- hitbox on other BHG caps may need work.

Hitbox for the Mako just needs testing by adversaries - Dashiell and Megiddo has gracefull volunteered to be gangpressed into doing it, this saturday.

Hitbox'es for other BHG capships (Destroyer and Cruiser) will be fixed after the new Mako hitbox has been okayed by the Dynamic Duo ( Dash and Meg).

then let's talk about Order Bomber vs BHG Bomber, Order fighter vs BHG Fighter.

He gets credit for discussing the hunter fleet as a whole. Please keep it civil here. - Agmn

so stop whining, fix the hitbox, Mako will be fine. Maybe WITHOUT fixing the hitbox, Mako is still fine, consider BHG Bomber is so over-powered

The current hitbox for the Mako is SERIOUSLY flawed, as proven in the pictures in this post : http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?s=...st&p=706639

The current hitbox for the Mako functions in effect as a huge balancing factor against the Mako, since you just need to shoot near the ship for it to register as a hit. Since the hitbox is so large, you can't even strafe away from an incoming shot - A player shooting at the Mako from a distance of 900 m or less, aiming for the targetting cross, WILL hit the Mako from a distance of 900 m or less even, even if the player in the Mako EK's and strafes left/right/up/down, so the shot appears to miss (I.E. mot hitting any part of the texture). That is NOT the case for the Ossie, due to the skinwrapped original Digital Anvil made hitbox.

So if the Mako should keep its current flawed hitbox, the Ossie should in all fairness have a non Digital Anvil made hitbox, and a similar designed hitbox as the Mako, with the same amount of "covered nontexture" area. If that got implemented, I'm pretty sure that the yelling from Omicron Minor and Omicron Gamma, would be heard not just in Sirius, but all the way acoss the galaxy.

Furthermore, saying that the Mako should be nerfed in any way, because a fighterbomber is strong, would be the same as saying that all other corsairs and order ships should be nerfed, because they have access to the Ossie.

Thats a circular argument you're dishing out, and really have no place in a constructive debate which is what Dashiell is looking for in this second round.


Try again, you can come up with better arguments. Then again, maybe you can't ?

Cpt. Miller, of the BHG|Core vessel "Miller's Draft"

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Out of bats, Out of bots, Out of torps - Down to harsh language...