Some balance ideas... maybe?

[Dashiell]

my heart leaps with joy: sensible things are being said now. cheers lads.

I`d like to reply to a few things that were said.

- Lunaphase pretty much said what I was thinking, only he formulated it better.

- the escort-issue. first off, saying that it`s -your- problem sounds a bit harsh to me. let the lone gamer blow up becuase he`s got no online contacts? not everyone is in a faction, nor can anyone whip up an escort just like that. even factionized players.

then Kelt said that the fighters just can`t stop the bomber from attacking. this is quite true, but it comes down to numbers. Reaven mentiones that numbers should be used. I beg to differ. I refuse to accept that bombers have to be ganked to hell just to let the escort be effective. where`s the fun for the bomber pilot gone when he has a hoarde of angry fighters on his 6, all shooting at just him? throw in some math then. 3 fighters on 1 bomber (yuk) to be efefctive. an attack on a cap is always executed by 2 or more bombers in 90& of the cases. that means you need 6 fighters as an escort. that`s a flying gank formation if I ever saw one...

- about lvl 8 slots on bs: I fear that doing so will result in qqqqqqqqqqqqq attacks. people will slap 4 GB missles on it ( the bs has the power to spam em) and oblitirate bombers. some effective defense is good, but this will result in overkill. I was thinking along the lines of a max of 4 chaingun-like turrets. souped up solarisses or something.

- variantions in weaponry will make caps in general more interesting I think. but it`s up to the devvies, really.

- about Mon`Star: his ship has a thruster, is 2 times the size of a BS and uses GB missiles like crazy. note: I don`t blame him for that: seeing as he tends to get ganked.

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[SevereTrinity]

You're not listening. If you assume you can't get an escort, I assume there is only one bomber targetting your battleship. Ergo, he can't win.

You missed my example. The battleship can survive with just two fighter escorts, even if they are of average skill.

[Dashiell]

You're not listening. If you assume you can't get an escort, I assume there is only one bomber targetting your battleship. Ergo, he can't win.

You missed my example. The battleship can survive with just two fighter escorts, even if they are of average skill.

I am listening, I just misunderstood. fair point.

but that doesn`t change the little example I have just given.

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[Rowly]

ok for a second here guys think about RP

screw that PvP balance stuff

why oh why would the mighty navies that have the cash for capital ships spend HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF CREDITS on big capships when 5 bombers could take an entire fleet out for a fraction of the cost?

it makes NO SENSE AT ALL!

[Tommeh]

You have about twenty minutes before two bombers can take down your shiny cap VIII battleship. think about what you type. And if two players take twenty minutes to down one player, I think that you have enough time to shoot them down.

I fully do not agree with this.
I do not how is possible to for 2 bombers to take down cap 8 BS.
We were training with 3 bombers on cap 7 Mako.
And all bombers were pretty skilled.
and it took us half hour to bring him down.
Several people can confirm that.
Pilot in Mako was pretty good with razors so it was lot's of dodging,but my point is that 2 bombers can't take cap 8 BS in 20 mins.

Ohh and I seen many times fighter escorts being useless against bombers.
Imagine what fighters have to do to kill bomber:bust shields,hit with razor at least 2 times in row.since one MR shot on bomber with max armor upgrade tooks half hull.Off course he has regens,so it takes even more time until all regens are spended.and that's only for one bomber.
and while escort is trying busting bombers shield and aiming with minirazor 2,3 bombers can spam snacs on caps all the time.
I have seen this many times,and I still believe as Kelt said bombers will take cap down before then escort takes bombers.
Only exception is when bombers get heavy outnumbered as Dashiell said.

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[Irra]

Totally agreed with Tommy ...

something should be balanced here and only think i see that would do work would be

1st: Fighters , weapons get increased weapon prijectile speed

2nd: Maybe supernova and nova torpedo get low hit points so those ships lose them fast and become useles

3rd: Bombers get less agility and weaker thrusters ...

I think 99% wants 1st but others arent so bad ... if 1st isnt enough then others should come along

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this is cool signature

[Bear]

Capships are not designed to kill bombers.

I believe you are wrong on this point. Bs's are huge, surely they would have something to quickly take out puny bombers. I mean geez, something that big and expensive should not be able to be taken down by three bombers. I know that if they are able to take down three bombers then people will whine as usual because their bombers can't take out a BS. Well I'm sorry, BUT THAT'S THE WAY IT IS.

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[SevereTrinity]

Bear, if that's the way it is, no one should fly battleships at all. Shouldn't be so many battleships in the first place, eh?

I fully do not agree with this.
I do not how is possible to for 2 bombers to take down cap 8 BS.
We were training with 3 bombers on cap 7 Mako.
And all bombers were pretty skilled.
and it took us half hour to bring him down.
Several people can confirm that.
Pilot in Mako was pretty good with razors so it was lot's of dodging,but my point is that 2 bombers can't take cap 8 BS in 20 mins.

Thank you for reinforcing my point that even with three bombers two fighter escorts have adequate time to kill the bombers.

Ohh and I seen many times fighter escorts being useless against bombers.
Imagine what fighters have to do to kill bomber:bust shields,hit with razor at least 2 times in row.since one MR shot on bomber with max armor upgrade tooks half hull.Off course he has regens,so it takes even more time until all regens are spended.and that's only for one bomber.

If all you; or your escorts are doing is firing razors at a bomber, you are in sore need of a lot of practice.

and while escort is trying busting bombers shield and aiming with minirazor 2,3 bombers can spam snacs on caps all the time.

Read point stated above this babble.

I have seen this many times,and I still believe as Kelt said bombers will take cap down before then escort takes bombers.

'I have seen this many times' Really? Because you've yet to name one example that reinforces your point, instead stating one that reinforces mine.

Only exception is when bombers get heavy outnumbered as Dashiell said.

In balance there must be equal players on both sides.

ok for a second here guys think about RP

We do.

screw that PvP balance stuff

That's what this thread is about moron.

why oh why would the mighty navies that have the cash for capital ships spend HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF CREDITS on big capships when 5 bombers could take an entire fleet out for a fraction of the cost?

Because inRP they would have fighter escorts.

it makes NO SENSE AT ALL!

Practice what you preach please.

my heart leaps with joy: sensible things are being said now. cheers lads.

I`d like to reply to a few things that were said.

- Lunaphase pretty much said what I was thinking, only he formulated it better.

- the escort-issue. first off, saying that it`s -your- problem sounds a bit harsh to me. let the lone gamer blow up becuase he`s got no online contacts? not everyone is in a faction, nor can anyone whip up an escort just like that. even factionized players.

Already replied to this point.

then Kelt said that the fighters just can`t stop the bomber from attacking. this is quite true, but it comes down to numbers. Reaven mentiones that numbers should be used. I beg to differ. I refuse to accept that bombers have to be ganked to hell just to let the escort be effective. where`s the fun for the bomber pilot gone when he has a hoarde of angry fighters on his 6, all shooting at just him? throw in some math then. 3 fighters on 1 bomber (yuk) to be efefctive. an attack on a cap is always executed by 2 or more bombers in 90& of the cases. that means you need 6 fighters as an escort. that`s a flying gank formation if I ever saw one...

'Equal numbers' rule. You can't balance if there are not equal numbers on both sides.

- about lvl 8 slots on bs: I fear that doing so will result in qqqqqqqqqqqqq attacks. people will slap 4 GB missles on it ( the bs has the power to spam em) and oblitirate bombers. some effective defense is good, but this will result in overkill. I was thinking along the lines of a max of 4 chaingun-like turrets. souped up solarisses or something.

Solari are already very good on small battleships, in combination with flaks. On larger BS, there is really no hope. (But those are flying Bomber-bait if I've ever seen one.).

- variantions in weaponry will make caps in general more interesting I think. but it`s up to the devvies, really.

Then we get more people complaining that 'X weapon isn't powerful enough'. You complained about it in 4.84, so we fixed Solari, Flaks, Mortars, Battle Razors, Pulses, even gave you variation in Primaries and Secondaries.

Now you want more? The selection is fine as is.

- about Mon`Star: his ship has a thruster, is 2 times the size of a BS and uses GB missiles like crazy. note: I don`t blame him for that: seeing as he tends to get ganked.

Point 1: So does every Cruiser and one other BC. Point 2: Makes him fight worse. Point 3: Doesn't help him against other caps.

My points in red.

[Dashiell]

caps are not supposed to wipe the floor with bombers in the blink of an eye. of course, if we want to go for realism, a BS would have a bunch of AA guns and missles. but that makes the game crap for bombers. it`s gameplay that we need to think about here. so effective countermeasures against bonmbers should be made availabe, but not some kind of 2000 m/s instatnt death beam or missles that will tear up a bomber.

also, what do people think about a BS with a forward gun, like the Libby siege Cruiser?

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[alpha3]

I fully do not agree with this.
I do not how is possible to for 2 bombers to take down cap 8 BS.
We were training with 3 bombers on cap 7 Mako.
And all bombers were pretty skilled.
and it took us half hour to bring him down.
Several people can confirm that.
Pilot in Mako was pretty good with razors so it was lot's of dodging,but my point is that 2 bombers can't take cap 8 BS in 20 mins.

Ohh and I seen many times fighter escorts being useless against bombers.
Imagine what fighters have to do to kill bomber:bust shields,hit with razor at least 2 times in row.since one MR shot on bomber with max armor upgrade tooks half hull.Off course he has regens,so it takes even more time until all regens are spended.and that's only for one bomber.
and while escort is trying busting bombers shield and aiming with minirazor 2,3 bombers can spam snacs on caps all the time.
I have seen this many times,and I still believe as Kelt said bombers will take cap down before then escort takes bombers.
Only exception is when bombers get heavy outnumbered as Dashiell said.

Man, I only have bombers and if I'm under focused fire I don't live more than 5mins even if I dodge all the time and spam snacs as you said. Of course a good BS pilot can kill me too. \: