So true, so true.
Lawfuls are outgunned by the simple fact that unlawfuls do as they please and no one really cares unless they bear a group tag. While lawfuls are all being complained about. And still, trying to be fair. Its not doing any good to anybody.
With mining, RP went down the drain in favor of cash. So sad, so true.
Before I jump into this argument (as a lawful myself), I need to make sure I have my own facts straight before I make an arse out of meself, lol.
Are lawfuls allowed to shoot unlawfuls that are in their space without needing to do anything but say "engaging xxx" like our tags say we can? I mean, the simple act of being a pirate should be plenty of reason, and since we can't arrest them, we don't have much choice but to kill them (or escort them out of the system so they can come back right away...). Our tag says "can hunt unlawfuls within your faction's zone of influence" and doesn't specify that we have to catch them in the middle of it.
Quick yes or no on that and I can continue (or withdraw) my argument when I get back from class..
Well... this server once was a hardcore Rp server. There are still a lot of great RP pilots out there. But it's turning into a PvP playground.
I agree it's a bit unbalanced when you see all the sanctions against lawful characters, whereas unlawful pirates may do almost whatever they like... Even fly lawful Miner ID's and pirate completely freely. Then when the Navy or Police occasionally pops by they just dock on any base and disconnects. If any lawfuls get hold of them they start whining and send reports.
I've seen it dozens of times. Miner ship glides by blowing three or four ships up, steals their cargo and then docks on a Liberty station.
It's turning in to a real problem. The Diamond run never had these problems. There were good RP'ing pirates.
If the pirates keep robbing and killing, and even combining the two. How come no lawfuls go after them? Easy... you'll get sanctioned for it.
' Wrote:This is exactly what I wanted to say on this topic.
When you join a pirate faction(except hackers, if i remember right) they shower you with money and show you with cash and show you instantly where to get the best ships and weapons. So within 30 minutes of joining you are geared up and ready for some lolwut pirate action.
To try be a decent lawfull. Not only are you gonna be out numbered and out gunned right from the start. Your not gonna get money thrown at you, so you have to trade or mine. This means your gonna get pirated 10000 times on your way to making enough cash to even start to equip your ship..And most likely thooe pirates are the guys that joined the server an hour before and got told"go forth and plunder" with almost no restrictions on what they can do.
So once you eventually get some money you need the equipment. No one will tell you where it is because its "classified" and is probably in the "restricted areas" which lawfulls are not allowed to enter(although pirates freely travel these routes too). So you must risk sanction just in the quest for a competative ship.
You starting to understand where this is going?
You may be about to say that im thinking entirely of pvp and not roleplay...not the case.
A lawfull NEEDS a powerfull ship for good roleplay. No point turning up to help a trader saying "back off pirate" if you dont have the goods to back up your demand. You need the pirate to have at least some fear of you or they will just kill the trader anyway and completely ignore you.
Now ppl talk of getting ganked by 10 fighters and caps while pirating in liberty. Those ppl need to stfu. What do you think would happen if a couple BH or LPI showed up in corsair territory. I remember trying to take a bounty once and ended up running with no fewer than 12 capships chasing me, with fighters on the way for backup.
And what do you think happens in the real world. Some dude robs a bank. You thing the police say..."hang on...we gotta only send in one guy to make it a fair fight.the winner walks away free.."
No thats not how it works.
We need more lawfulls and we need them to actually help each other out. And we deffinately dont need those that name themselves "cpt.this" and "Admiral.that" and think they have the right to go around giving stupid orders for no flippin reason and then make threats when someone wants to do thier own thing.
Hmmm now I was gonna start playing again with a single char with deep rp. Ive nearly convinced myself I need to get back into the armed forces:rolleyes:
wow. im sooo making a police/navy character when i get my pc running *claps hands*
Personally, one thing I would love to see go away is the "oh lets not gang up on him, it's unfair" attitude of the police (at least, the ones I've flown with mostly). This may be a bit controversial to some of you veterans, but think about it: A pirate should FEAR going into a liberty system, especially New York. Part of the RP experience IS that fear, and to have them running around killing us because we won't gang up on him is downright silly. If a capital ship sees a pirate, he should be doing his durndest to make sure said pirate is in an escape pod on his way to prison.
Talk to any military person on the planet and they'll tell you "if you're fighting fair, you're doing it wrong. Fair fights get your friends killed"
The police and navy should really adopt this attitude.
IMO, if a pirate wants to get into New York, he damn well better work for his right to stay alive. He should have "crap if they catch me I'm toast" running through his mind.
I also disagree with making police wait 4 hours if they die defending their home system, but I can't really argue that, only having played for a few weeks total so far... so I won't tell you "how it should be". It just seems like if police got a break on that (maybe shorter duration) that would encourage more people to join us and actually be willing to get into a fight...
Yes the lawfulls need to be feared in thier own territories the same way that the pirates are feared along the power trade routes.
What we need to remember is that in certain circumstances pvp is the best roleplay. Your not gonna bust in on a pirate in the middle of it begging him to "please stop and leave the system".
Look at the single player campaign. One of the first missions has you catching pirates attacking a large ship. Theres no extended pointless chit chat. Its straight in to a fire fight. Then you get a lead on thier base and what do the LSF do? They hunt the ***kers down and kill them all.
WE still DO need to do the role play part of it. Its important, without it we might as well all just be playing single player. But alot of it can be done while in the trade lanes on the way to intercept.That way if the pirate chooses to still be in the area by the time you get there then they should expect to get blown to hell.
Heck, when I used to play any of my unlawfull characters I would try put myself in a situation where if I got caught, I had to escape or die. That sort of thing is what gets your heart pumping. Puts you right in the cockpit with your character and you can feel the fear. This to me is what role playing is all about.
Here is the simple reason why being an unlawful is more attractive than a lawful:
It is HARD to be an unlawful in real life. If you rob a bank, chances are they're going to catch you. It's difficult to steal stuff. And everyone knows that rebels get more girls than not-rebels. So, to attract all the honeys, people gravitate towards pirates instead of the honest, hardworking men that are a dime a dozen in real life. I mean, anyone can go off and join the armed forces. Until recently, all the European Countries I had an interest in living it had military service as a mandatory civil service for blossoming young adults.
So, to wrap it up, being a lawful can easily happen in the RLs. Being a pirate, not so much. Mysterious attracts opposite sex. Hormones go wild and BOOM lots of pirates.
' Wrote:I think the problem is with a particular ID.
Pilots can pirate for ore and then fly right infront of a lawful and dock on a lawful base despite the fact that his goods are stolen and no-one except the pirate and piratee would know.
The balance (or circles) has shifted.
The law can't patrol this because they don't know who is what. It's no longer clear.
Sadly, tricks like these will start to unravel the RP basis.
A lot of players now pick the best ship, guns and ID rather than the best RP weapons, ship, ID etc
To me, this seems like good RP on the part of the miners. When the line between unlawful and lawful gets smudged, unlawfuls are doing a good job of hiding their activities. Afterall, no one walks around with a nametag saying:
Hi. I ordered the Secret Service to break into Watergate. My name is John Q. Nixon
Of course, the type of RP where one either wins or loses completely is often very disgruntling to people. I personally enjoy and appreciate it, even on the losing side, however, most people simply do not like losing and losing without hope of compromise...
Also, I somehow doubt that people even know the RP of the Miners or the capabilities of their ships, mainly because the Mining Ship has enough armor to withstand a SN stock, biggest Transport powerplant, and more guns than a Gunboat. Really, now, there are very few ships which are a better choice for fending people off and running than a mining ship. If you're losing in that thing, seriously reconsider your strategy.
' Wrote:And second is to remove from -every- unlawful ID card that demanding credits is allowed.
Shall them get themselves an associate as hauler and pirate for cargo.
Start a revolution and get a Pirate in a common transport (Behemoth, Big Dragon, Percheron, Mammoth, etc.)
' Wrote:Ya, this is a problem... there is a lack of people available to act as an escort. The impression I got, maybe I'm wrong, is that at the moment the balance of power is really shifted in favor of pirates. So, utill something will be changed, what we will see is... more and more pirates, less and less traders... not talking about escorts whose work is less remunerative than traiding or pirating.
So, there is an open market for you to fit into! Jump in and make loads of money! Go on! Make an escort!
' Wrote:90% ? Your figures are, as I tell you, hugely incorrect. I know many great RP'ers from most major Liberty trading factions.
Seems to me that you're just an arrogant, bitchy and angry pirate who perhaps met a few powertraders. Your RP may be no better than what I'd expect from an average pirate.
Who are you to judge the RP standards of every trader on the server? Huh?
You really should try pirating. When it comes to losing, the RP slowly fades away. And heaven forbid someone give you strong RP reason for losing....
' Wrote:Maybe... to be honest... this is what happen in very many cases:
Pirate: 10 mil or you die!
Trader: OOC: wait a min
Pirate: you are running!
(the tradere was just answering a phone call in real world and his trasport was not moving at all)
The pirate attacks and destroy the trader.
Is this roleplay? I would name it in a different way... before blaming traders for lack in RP, go around and check how much RP is really done by pirates...
Guns are a big part of Roleplay. If I have a gun, and you have your body, who has an advantage? I have an advantage. Do what I say, or I will blow you away. That is how it is with pirating. If I have the capability to kill you, and you do not want to cooperate, I will kill you. Easy as. That is all part of RP.
RP isn't just words put into a sentence and put on a screen. RP is about actions. Words backup actions and fill in the blanks we can't fill with the spaceships. The greater political motives, filler sentences, messages of intricate intent, that's what words are for. However, if your words don't get you what you want, then your guns are there to sooth your pain. If this were only about text, we'd all be playing text RPGs in space.
' Wrote:This is sooo much more like what i have seen. Heck i got "stop" i said "nah" Then i here "ok now you die" Then i get hit by 2 super nova's,and a ton of nuke mine's. Whole encounter lasted maybe 30 sec's. I never even got a demand for cash, or cargo. And before anyone tell's me screen it,and put in sanction's... Well i did,and nothing. So you see. A pirate can do anything he want's,and get's away with it. A lawful doe's anything,and sanction city. Just look in sanction's. Most are lawful's. I will admit they may be because of real nasty OORP,or other ofences,but i have seen the same with pirate's but nothing.
That is why people are going pirate. To much leeway to what they can do,but lawful's have a strict guideline of what they cannot do.
Actually, there are more rules on pirating than any other aspect of the game. Lawfuls are even exempt from rules (Traders and 4 hour rule anyone?). Pirates really are bound by more rules, but, because they "Get away" with so much, it seems like they don't. A lawful catching a smuggler is not him "Getting away" with anything, but, a pirate deviously seducing a trader into a corner and escaping police is him "Getting away" with it, and so it seems like there are less rules. Thing is, there is just more room to be creative on a pirate. That or it's much easier to be creative...
' Wrote:Actually, pissing off pirates when they're on top of their prey seems fun to me
Yup. Gets a good punch in the mouth. I love it when people sass me on my pirate when I know I can kill them. Puts them in their place.
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
' Wrote:THEM: *Cruise away to 2k* LEARN2PiRaTEN00B!
ME: *CD* Who's the big guys nau?
THEM: DAI
ME: Them was put out of action by me
Generally the case for the majority of Trades, sadly.
Doesn't sound like the majority of Traders... Probably you're just pissed that some traders get away and the mock your for it.
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