A good RP plot, I think

[dude42]

I have a clan of rebels that are Anti-[SF] BAF.
And I am trying to get some foreign aid from [KNF]

Go read the OOC post here> [KNF] Message Dump
Then come back here and tell me what you think.

You can also go back one page in their dump to see the Official treaty put forward.

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[Yngen]

Thank you for taking this to a proper forum.

Now. I understand that you aren't really junkers. However I will not accept that as any form of an argument in this discussion because it is used by just about every other junker-tagged faction I've seen. "We aren't really junkers, we just like to use their bases, or we like their reputation-basically white with everything except xenos and Hogosha..."

Makes it easy to camp bases that aren't affiliated with you, etc. etc.

Wonderfully colorful faction you have created here Dude42, I love the concept. A bit of a bumpy start here though. You started with BHG ships, then Bretonian ships, now adding Junker ships to that? Sounds like you are well on your way to flying everything in Discovery. And now you are checking the listings for a second house faction to reside in. I don't know what happened to the first one but I'm pretty sure everyone in KNF would not like the kind of drama that you and Koolmo played out recently.

Here's the problem in a nutshell:

Kusari are a racist and xenophobic people when you get down to it. They don't like foreigners in their back yards. We had near riots in Honshu when we let SinTech, SA and BSG fly in force around our civilians there. While there may be some hint of the Shogunate quietly supporting the Gaians or Mollys, you don't see them harboring these mal-contents inside Kusari space. Why? Because the Kusari government plans on coming out of this war with a lawful and just image just like it had before it began. If they do these underhanded tactics overtly, they will lose face with people they would just as soon keep a cordial relationship with.

So, get a Hogosha tag? Probably wont do it even then. Why? Because you are still Bretonians! If you all hail from Bretonia, you will never be accepted in any way in Kusari society because you are gaiijin. In order for the Hogosha tag to work you would have to drop the whole Bretonian roots part of your role play and adapt a more mafia-like attitude.

You seem to want to run a quasi-criminal faction/unlawful/terrorist/guerrilla spec ops sort of thing (they are all the same depending on your perspective) but you want to use major military hardware to do it. It was ok to use Bretonian capital ships while you sported the BAF tag/ID, but now you want to be a Junker flying Kusari capital ships.... Doesn't that sound ridiculous to you?

Sorry, but I think the mercenary idea is your best bet. Fly junker ships. The commander and cheif of the KNF is in fact finishing up a Junker cruiser/battleship that should be in the next version of the mod. Wait for that and use it, dont use Kusari ships. KNF will role play as Kusarians and react to your presence in their space accordingly.

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[AU]Anton_Blix
-Signature by Doom

[Axe]

Now. I understand that you aren't really junkers. However I will not accept that as any form of an argument in this discussion because it is used by just about every other junker-tagged faction I've seen. "We aren't really junkers, we just like to use their bases, or we like their reputation-basically white with everything except xenos and Hogosha..."

Makes it easy to camp bases that aren't affiliated with you, etc. etc.

Lets also add that people think that as junkers they can fly whatever they want. I'm pretty damn sick of seeing every Junker tagged gunboat being a Corsair gunboat. The Corsairs and Junkers only tollerate each other at the moment because of the Artifact trade. Junkers are also siding with the Outcasts in the 'anti-corsair coalition'. The Corsairs would never allow a Junker to dock on a Corsair base, nevermind sell them one of their ships.

[dude42]

(Please, PLEASE take this somewhere else, I.E the Faction forum, or the Disco 24/7 forum. This is a role play forum, there is no OCC, ever.)

Sorry, I thought I was adressing an RP issue. It is confusing to know where all these diff topics should go.

the Kusari government plans on coming out of this war with a lawful and just image just like it had before it began. If they do these underhanded tactics overtly, they will lose face with people they would just as soon keep a cordial relationship with.

So, get a Hogosha tag? Probably wont do it even then. Why? Because you are still Bretonians! If you all hail from Bretonia, you will never be accepted in any way in Kusari society because you are gaiijin.

Thanks for this actually "Good Reson"
It does pose a problem then...

"But" you see in my examlpes that most of the goverments aiding rebels do not think that these acts are underhanded. We are fighting the same threat and the {C} do not act as criminals but only attack Bretonian transports and BAF in military stikes. So in no way must you consider it "underhanded" to aid rebels against your enemy in the same fight. Our rep is simply a product of the BH cotinualy hunting us. But to us, all of Kusari is quite [color=#33CC00]green.

And the junker tag says that only Cruisers and Battleships are limited, we asked to use the Gunboat and down. I myself Hardly view the GB as a proper "Cap. ship"

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[dude42]

Lets also add that people think that as junkers they can fly whatever they want. I'm pretty damn sick of seeing every Junker tagged gunboat being a Corsair gunboat. The Corsairs and Junkers only tollerate each other at the moment because of the Artifact trade. Junkers are also siding with the Outcasts in the 'anti-corsair coalition'. The Corsairs would never allow a Junker to dock on a Corsair base, nevermind sell them one of their ships.

But you all act as if, when you align to a faction, you must act like you were born as one. Our story shows how we did not come "junker stock". Although it also seems that the junkers are an assorted band of outcasts from all over, that could be made up of verying types. I think that you are overlooking the possability of a sort of third party accepted between two or more other groups.
Junkers are at the top but the corsairs are right behind on our alignment, then zoners you see. So many people are trying to put more restrictions on this game then there should be; It "is" freelancer and the essence of the game is to run your own show. The F8 alignment chart plainly shows that it is possible to fit in a nich between the junkers and corsairs so why is that strange in RP?

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[Dab]

They aren't expecting you to act like the perfect Junker.. And may I remind you, Junkers are actually on bad terms with ALL houses.

Now, your situation is slightly like AW's. SLIGHTLY.

AW is aligned with Zoners, however we do have our own ID, but that was given to us very recently. Now AW is aligned with Zoners. Zoners are neutral to everyone, except hostile to Nomads, and allied to The Order ana GMG. Now those two alliances put them a bit off with the Liberty Government, and the Outcasts. Now people don't expect AW to act like pure Zoners. Neutral to all, allied to Order and GMG. In fact, AW is Unfriendly with all houses, friendly with the Order, Outcasts, and allied to Lane Hackers.

But there is a difference between what AW does and what {C} is doing at the moment. AW attempts to match Zoners in their diplomacy, and actions. We connect ourselves to the Zoners, rather than grab their tag, ID, and say haha, we can fly whatever we want, because we are neutral to everyone. We have a specific shiplist now, limited to ships from our friendlies and allies, and Zoners friendlies and allies. For example; we've been at war with SF 7 or 8 times now. You'll NEVER see an AW in a Bretonian ship. With our diplomacy there are 2 policies.
1; Neutral unless you provoke us first. Meaning, neutral unless attacked or disrespected in any serious way.
2; Neutral unless you break the laws in Omicron Theta and Omicron-74 space. If you attack someone there your hostile. Much like the Zoners prohibiting hostilities aboard their Freeports, we prohibit it from all-Zoner, and Zoner-controlled space. (Thats Omicron-Theta, Omicron-74, and Omega-49 [~V~ defends Omega-49 themselves, but we have a mutual defense agreement])

What your doing is taking the Junker tag, ID, and neutrality. Your getting whatever ships your members felt like buying, with whatever weaponry your members found the best. Then your not following the Junker diplomacy AT ALL except for neutrality. You want to be hostile to BAF, friendly with KNF, neutral to Hogosha, and neutral to the houses.. Too bad. Your unfriendly to EVERY house, including Kusari, and your hostile to Hogosha. Your restricted (or should be) to Junker ships, and any ships that are from friendlies to the Junkers. Such as Outcast, Civilian (Zoner), and other Border World ships.

Meanwhile, you should act as Junkers in your actions. Your not a military dedicated to the overthrow of SF as the BAF's head. Your junkers. You collect scrap, smuggle, trade, and sell equipment to everyone who will buy it..

You CAN be associated with an NPC faction, without actually being them. But only to a point. You still have to possess qualities like that faction. Like AW keeps a no-hostilities law in Zoner-only systems, like the Zoners keep on their bases. AW keeps you neutral unless allying you, or you provoked us.

You can't have the best of an NPC faction, without at least some of the bad parts. Your going with Junkers, expect the houses, ALL of the houses, to treat you as border-line criminal.

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[dude42]

You all keep talking like we use any ship we want but as we changed so the ship list

What your doing is taking the Junker tag, ID, and neutrality. Your getting whatever ships your members felt like buying, with whatever weaponry your members found the best. Then your not following the Junker diplomacy AT ALL except for neutrality. You want to be hostile to BAF, friendly with KNF, neutral to Hogosha, and neutral to the houses.. Too bad. Your unfriendly to EVERY house, including Kusari, and your hostile to Hogosha. Your restricted (or should be) to Junker ships, and any ships that are from friendlies to the Junkers. Such as Outcast, Civilian (Zoner), and other Border World ships.

We are not using any ship we want, we have two groups and one is the collector group who act just like junkers in junker ships so that we fit with them in RP.
We also have a military group with larger ship from our closer friends just like you!
Yes we are red to all houses "but" Kusari because of who we attack. So I am still having trouble understanding, if it is so possible in the game, why do you all think it is so RP impossible.
So far everyone here has acused me of doing what ever I feel like doing but maybe you should read my in-clan posts before saying that. I have many regulations and run it under strict rules to work with RP.

I remind you all that the only reson I was a lawful in bretonia was to set up the back story. I had always planned on being an Anti-BAF terrorist so dont be quick to assume that I am flip-flopping. And we do not use any ship we want, I also herd that some junker cap ships are being made and plan to use those.
I must also remind you all that my clan is a bit fresh and some of the smaller changes are just the kinks being worked out so calm down, be patient and please dont be so harsh - we cool, its all cool man.

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[Koolmo]

/sigh...

Setting ships aside, what Yngen said is true. Kusari is an EXTREMEMLY racist and xenophobic nation, and they're fighting bretonia. YOUR NAME is the "Children of Bretonia"... They probably wouldn't take kindly to this, even if your chosen faction wasn't the moral enemies of the semi-official Kusari mob. LD.Inc is very leery of operating in Kusari, as the Hogosha are likely to lay down the beating if our activity level rises above 'just passing through'.

Also remember, the other houses wouldn't look lindly upon the Kusari aiding a terrorsit organization, myself and Firebird had a conversation about this regarding the GC and BD. This is the same situation, Kusari has no desire to turn the tables on itself by aiding the traitorus elements of another foreign power. Remember that this war is in a small scale at the moment, and that neither of the other 2 houses is fully committed to backing one side or another.

And yea, the "limiting" on the Junker ID refers to not being able to pirate with those ships.

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<span style="color:#FFFF00">&quot;General Solo, is your strike team assembled?&quot;
&quot;Barely, they're pretty drunk.&quot; </span>
SCRA Recruiting--SCRA Feedback--SCRA Message Dump--SCRA Faction Status

I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

[YukoRyuu]

That day when Tara was in Kyushu...all of us saw u as ruby red..my char is new and i took only that amount of missions to get ID and Tag...but, still, u were red...so even built in relations in game make Junkers hostile to Kusari naval forces...
So u see those relations are deeper then what faction leaders wish...KNF only respects their RP. BAF or SF cant actually force you out of bretonia...just like KNF cant force Blood Dragons out of Kusari or SA cant push out Xenos or Rouges...U have your bases around Sirius...if u fear SF then u may maybe move to omega 15 (u have junker base there)...

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[dude42]

Setting ships aside, what Yngen said is true. Kusari is an EXTREMEMLY racist and xenophobic nation, and they're fighting bretonia. YOUR NAME is the "Children of Bretonia"... They probably wouldn't take kindly to this, even if your chosen faction wasn't the moral enemies of the semi-official Kusari mob. LD.Inc is very leery of operating in Kusari, as the Hogosha are likely to lay down the beating if our activity level rises above 'just passing through'.

Yes I also agree this is a very good point.

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