System Balance - the houses

[reavengitair]

So I've been taking a look at the houses and the number of systems in each. Basically:

Liberty: 18 systems

Bretonia: 15 systems

Kusari: 13 systems

Rheinland: 11 systems

Gallia: 12 (according to wiki + bastille)

Right. So its clearly uneven, but not only that, half the systems in each of these are just about desolate. Yes, discovery needs desolate systems, but not this many. Of course, I'm not saying that we should do this right now, but house space is house space. It belongs to the house. One or two, maybe, but take a look at liberty. Most of the systems are currently half-empty (of people and actually in-game) and most should be independant.

So I could continue on, but I'm not going to bother, because I think its pretty much clear that the houses are uneven, and they have too many empty systems. Empty systems should be for independant, borderworlds and edgeworlds. Not for house-claimed space. Whats the point of claiming a house space if there aren't even NPCs from that house? (I'm talking about places like Oita, Londonderry, Puerto Rico, Saar - Okay, I can accept some guard systems, but what about systems like Chester, Iverness, Orkney, Yukon, etc.)...

Of course houses should be large. They should be very large. But when you look at the house itself, there are about 5 systems one could consider to be a "House System". The rest, the house does have a influence in those systems, but not enough to be a core system.

So I think that...

1. There should be a few systems that lose their status of being in a house and reduced to independant/border/edge worlds

2. Houses should add or reduce systems in order to make them slightly even. Slightly more even. Maybe a maximum of 2 difference between each house. Just because there are lots of americans here doesn't mean Liberty should get the most attention >.>

3. introduction of more "Core systems", to replace some of the ones that are there. Perhaps its just my view of Discovery and Sirius that is incorrect, but I find it difficult to accept that a whole house can basically be crammed into 4, if not 5 systems. All the others are basically just military presence.

4. Guard systems of unlawful organisations in houses shouldn't be counted under that house. I don't think Londonderry would be a system under Bretonia.

5. More tradelanes/corporate bases would be nice, especially in those desolate systems still under the house. 3 tradelanes for me, is just about right. Possibly even 4... I mean, take a look at Gallia. Its an awesome place. And take a look, just the borderworlds not even the core worlds have been released and they already have their 4 fully-populated systems, with tradelanes, corporate bases, etc. Can we see each house with that many too? With the council (if I'm not wrong) having the ability to build jumpgates and tradelanes, maybe this could open up a possibility of other houses getting their tradelanes/jumpgates from places other than liberty?

Anyway, random thoughts, because I'm bored.


EDIT: These systems were taken off the official discovery 4.85 map. Official. All the player-introduced stuff does not count in my mind until they are officially introduced.

[Panzer]

Liberty's a representation of America! the most pwnsome-powerful nation there ever was and will ever be!

Buncha baloney :dry:

And Gallia's not yet complete.

---

[reavengitair]

And Gallia's not yet complete.

That is exactly the point! There are 5 systems out, all of which are completley populated, and are the gallic EDGEWORLD systems. If those are the edgeworld systems, what will the core systems be like?

Therefore, if we put in another 3-4 fully done systems to Gallia, to balance that, each house will need 10 fully-complete systems! SYSTEM MODDETH TIME!

[Dab]

So I've been taking a look at the houses and the number of systems in each. Basically:

Liberty: 18 systems

Bretonia: 15 systems

Kusari: 13 systems

Rheinland: 11 systems

Gallia: 12 (according to wiki + bastille)

First, you need to not count guard systems OR empty systems. Guard system numbers depend on the amount of NPC factions that need them. Empty systems are simply empty because they haven't been modded yet.

Also, people need to stop mistaking the term 'Bretonia' to mean the Bretonian Government.. It doesn't. Systems designated with a house name are NOT part of that house's government territory. Bretonia/Kusari/etc are regions of space, as well as names of the government. Systems are designated by where they are, what region, not who controls them. Londonderry is in the Bretonian REGION, but the Bretonian Government has no control there.. People mistake system designators way too often. I direct your attention to Okinawa, which is designated as Kusari on the map, but is under control of GMG, not the Kusari Government.

Right. So its clearly uneven, but not only that, half the systems in each of these are just about desolate. Yes, discovery needs desolate systems, but not this many. Of course, I'm not saying that we should do this right now, but house space is house space. It belongs to the house. One or two, maybe, but take a look at liberty. Most of the systems are currently half-empty (of people and actually in-game) and most should be independant.

House space is a region, not always under control of the government using that name. The systems in Liberty are just that; Part of the Liberty region of Sirius. Also, if you want less desolate systems, learn to mod them. With Seth gone and Hyperion's activity questionable (at least to me, I never see him), I'm the only dedicated system dev left. Igiss does a fair bit, but he also has a lot of other dev responsibilities, as he's the dev lead.. Occasionally a few other people do it when they need to, like Blodo for example, but they aren't dedicated to that part of Discovery's development.. We're down to one dedicated system dev; Me. There is only so much I can do at a time. I've already got a workload of 7 new systems (new and modding empty ones) and countless updates to existing ones just for 4.86.. That being said, however, this won't be that big a dent in the empty system count. I can only do so much. You call for more systems to be added, but you haven't taken into account how much time and work is involved in making an entire new system from scratch..

So I could continue on, but I'm not going to bother, because I think its pretty much clear that the houses are uneven, and they have too many empty systems. Empty systems should be for independant, borderworlds and edgeworlds. Not for house-claimed space. Whats the point of claiming a house space if there aren't even NPCs from that house? (I'm talking about places like Oita, Londonderry, Puerto Rico, Saar - Okay, I can accept some guard systems, but what about systems like Chester, Iverness, Orkney, Yukon, etc.)...

As said above; Names are regions, not house-claimed. And yes, the houses are uneven. That's mostly because the players are one of the biggest reasons for which systems get done and which don't. Considering there's a higher population in Liberty than anywhere else, that's why it's the heaviest populated, especially counting the guard systems. Also, the Liberty players are the ones who can afford to pay a system modder better than anyone else (I no longer charge services, but I do very few player-requests anymore).

Of course houses should be large. They should be very large. But when you look at the house itself, there are about 5 systems one could consider to be a "House System". The rest, the house does have a influence in those systems, but not enough to be a core system.

Think about what a core system is.. Very heavily populated, usually habitable planets, large numbers of stations, and above all else; High numbers of Police and Military patrols. A house can't do this everywhere. It's simply not financially acceptable. Why would Kusari make Tau-29 heavily populated when two or three stations would be more than enough to profit off of the system... Any more than that would be a waste of resources. They also can't afford constant police patrols around the system to protect corporations. When the corporations expand to the edges or beyond the edges of a house's controlled space, it's up to them to protect their own installations.

Core systems would be rare. Think of them as major cities. Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, etc. Then the medium cities would be the border systems. The smaller they are, the more numerous they are. Core systems would be few, border systems decent in numbers, then non-controlled space would be high in numbers. Lets take Kusari for example.
Core:
New Tokyo
Kyushu
Honshu
Shikoku
-These are the Kusari-claimed/controlled systems, heavily populated.

Border:
Okinawa
Nagano
Hokkaido
Tau-29
Etc
-These are sparse-to-heavy in population, can be controlled (Hokk/T-29) or uncontrolled (Okinawa/Nagano) by the government.

Everything beyond has mininal-to-no house control and generally few corporate stations.

1. There should be a few systems that lose their status of being in a house and reduced to independant/border/edge worlds

Why? You're mixing up region and controlled here. Just because it says a house's name, doesn't mean it's controlled by that government. (I know I keep repeating this, but I'm trying to make sure it's known. People have been making this mistake too often..)

2. Houses should add or reduce systems in order to make them slightly even. Slightly more even. Maybe a maximum of 2 difference between each house. Just because there are lots of americans here doesn't mean Liberty should get the most attention >.>

And would you like to deal with all the problems when we update mod versions and the server crashed every 5 minutes because people are trying to log onto characters that were docked in systems that no longer exist? Removing a system isn't easy, and it creates a whole lot of bugs. Furthermore, we're simply not going to do it. Especially since a lot of effort goes into making these, lets not waste it.. I agree, houses should be generally close, but remember that in-RP, Liberty has a much higher population than any other house. Kusari has the smallest.. That would have a big impact on the number of populated systems. Also, the economic condition of that house would also greatly influence how much they can expand. At the end of the Nomad war, Rheinland and Kusari were both devastated economically and in military power. They both worked very hard to rebuild those fleets, but an economy takes time to rebuild.. It isn't simple, and it's the economy that allows a house and corporation to expand.

3. introduction of more "Core systems", to replace some of the ones that are there. Perhaps its just my view of Discovery and Sirius that is incorrect, but I find it difficult to accept that a whole house can basically be crammed into 4, if not 5 systems. All the others are basically just military presence.

The whole house isn't crammed into 4-5 systems. It has 4-5 heavily-populated ones while corporations expand their borders slowly as they build stations further out. What supports the houses getting more core systems? Especially with wars going on, what houses can afford such large-scale projects?

4. Guard systems of unlawful organisations in houses shouldn't be counted under that house. I don't think Londonderry would be a system under Bretonia.

They are counted under that house region, not that house government. The Rogue Guard system isn't under the Liberty Government's control, but it's still part of the Liberty region.

5. More tradelanes/corporate bases would be nice, especially in those desolate systems still under the house. 3 tradelanes for me, is just about right. Possibly even 4... I mean, take a look at Gallia. Its an awesome place. And take a look, just the borderworlds not even the core worlds have been released and they already have their 4 fully-populated systems, with tradelanes, corporate bases, etc. Can we see each house with that many too? With the council (if I'm not wrong) having the ability to build jumpgates and tradelanes, maybe this could open up a possibility of other houses getting their tradelanes/jumpgates from places other than liberty?

Lets not compare Gallia to the rest of Sirius, that's a completely different matter altogether. Also, these border systems do get tradelanes. Okinawa? Sigmas, Taus, Omegas? They all have trade lanes, and they are all border systems. Sigmas are under the control of no house, but still have trade lanes in them.. But far-out systems like Tau-23 simply don't have enough infrastructure to justify trade lanes. Also, places that are small and take only a few minutes to traverse in cruise don't need trade lanes either. Think about Tau-23.. It really isn't big enough for trade lanes.. You'd enter and exit in a total span of about 5-10 seconds. That's too short for a company or house to dish out cash and resources for tradelanes that aren't needed. Tradelanes are used in places that are high in traffic, not borderworlds.

---

[reavengitair]

Also, people need to stop mistaking the term 'Bretonia' to mean the Bretonian Government.. It doesn't. Systems designated with a house name are NOT part of that house's government territory. Bretonia/Kusari/etc are regions of space, as well as names of the government. Systems are designated by where they are, what region, not who controls them. Londonderry is in the Bretonian REGION, but the Bretonian Government has no control there.. People mistake system designators way too often. I direct your attention to Okinawa, which is designated as Kusari on the map, but is under control of GMG, not the Kusari Government.

So then, what is the point of naming them that way? I'm looking at this from an RP point of view.

So say the Bretonia lands and forms the kingdom of bretonia. Then they go out, explore, include some systems to form Bretonia (the reigeon). However, eventually, now they have a huge kingdom spanning over so many systems, its almost ridiculous. However, half of these don't even have the presence of the Bretonian Kingdom.

Places named after a region of space... Ok, let me give a few examples.

Okinawa: As said, it is owned completley by the GMG. Then why is it even under the Kusari region? Shouldn't it be an independant system? It runs itself independantly, without the influence of the Kusari Empire (to some extent).

All the guard systems of unlawful factions: They too, run themselves independantly. For the sake of OORP and RP sense, I think they should be independant of border/edgeworlds.

Iverness (ehh, the only NPCs here are junkers...)
Chester (nomads? I suppose this could be included in bretonia...)
Yukon (only zoner bases here)

etc. I'm sure theres more.

Think about what a core system is.. Very heavily populated, usually habitable planets, large numbers of stations, and above all else; High numbers of Police and Military patrols. A house can't do this everywhere. It's simply not financially acceptable. Why would Kusari make Tau-29 heavily populated when two or three stations would be more than enough to profit off of the system... Any more than that would be a waste of resources. They also can't afford constant police patrols around the system to protect corporations. When the corporations expand to the edges or beyond the edges of a house's controlled space, it's up to them to protect their own installations.

Core systems would be rare. Think of them as major cities. Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, etc. Then the medium cities would be the border systems. The smaller they are, the more numerous they are. Core systems would be few, border systems decent in numbers, then non-controlled space would be high in numbers. Lets take Kusari for example.
Core:
New Tokyo
Kyushu
Honshu
Shikoku
-These are the Kusari-claimed/controlled systems, heavily populated.

Border:
Okinawa
Nagano
Hokkaido
Tau-29
Etc
-These are sparse-to-heavy in population, can be controlled (Hokk/T-29) or uncontrolled (Okinawa/Nagano) by the government.

Everything beyond has mininal-to-no house control and generally few corporate stations.

Yes, I admit that there should not be many. But this is also to expand player feel of the place, as well as NPC feel. Obviously, there are few "major major" cities, but shouldn't there be a few "lesser major" cities as well? Currently in discovery we have

4 major system - I'm fine.

100 mini-systems with 1 or no bases - ehh... 1 base can be counted as a smaller city now? Okay, some systems like tau 29 - fine. But how many of them are there? maybe 3 in a house?

Thats really what I was getting at.

Why? You're mixing up region and controlled here. Just because it says a house's name, doesn't mean it's controlled by that government. (I know I keep repeating this, but I'm trying to make sure it's known. People have been making this mistake too often..)

Ok, I get it. But still, it doesn't make sense for independantly run systems to even be under the bretonian region of space. Independant systems should be labled independant systems. Or should be in the border/edge worlds, where no-one gives a damn. It doesn't really make sense, in my opinion, for independant systems to be included in even the house reigon. The region of space would be... entirely known to the government would it not? Therefore regions of space such as Lewis would be able to fall in a few seconds.

And would you like to deal with all the problems when we update mod versions and the server crashed every 5 minutes because people are trying to log onto characters that were docked in systems that no longer exist? Removing a system isn't easy, and it creates a whole lot of bugs. Furthermore, we're simply not going to do it. Especially since a lot of effort goes into making these, lets not waste it.. I agree, houses should be generally close, but remember that in-RP, Liberty has a much higher population than any other house. Kusari has the smallest.. That would have a big impact on the number of populated systems. Also, the economic condition of that house would also greatly influence how much they can expand. At the end of the Nomad war, Rheinland and Kusari were both devastated economically and in military power. They both worked very hard to rebuild those fleets, but an economy takes time to rebuild.. It isn't simple, and it's the economy that allows a house and corporation to expand.

I meant reducing as in reducing their status from house region to independant/border/edge

They are counted under that house region, not that house government. The Rogue Guard system isn't under the Liberty Government's control, but it's still part of the Liberty region.

Cassini, the rouge guard system, isn't in the liberty region. Its an independant world as it should be.

Lets not compare Gallia to the rest of Sirius, that's a completely different matter altogether. Also, these border systems do get tradelanes. Okinawa? Sigmas, Taus, Omegas? They all have trade lanes, and they are all border systems. Sigmas are under the control of no house, but still have trade lanes in them.. But far-out systems like Tau-23 simply don't have enough infrastructure to justify trade lanes. Also, places that are small and take only a few minutes to traverse in cruise don't need trade lanes either. Think about Tau-23.. It really isn't big enough for trade lanes.. You'd enter and exit in a total span of about 5-10 seconds. That's too short for a company or house to dish out cash and resources for tradelanes that aren't needed. Tradelanes are used in places that are high in traffic, not borderworlds.

So SOMEHOW... Gallia,

1. Arrived late in sirius
2. would have at least spent another 100-200 years gathering intelligence on tradelanes/jumpgates, possibly 300
3. And yet have 5 BORDERWORLD systems FULLY populated, not even including New Paris and the other "core" systems? I assume this would mean that the core systems will have nothing in them? Even so, Gallia has 5-6 fully-populated systems. A little over the top, considering that Kusari has 4, Bretonia has 5, Rheinland has 5, and Liberty also has 5. Also consider the size of those systems. Look at Burgundy for example, is waaay more populated than say... Pennsylvania, possibly even Colorado. Probably more than Newcastle too. That also goes for most of the other gallic border systems. So somehow we are meant to understand that Gallia has a population at least 1.5 if not 2 times the size o Kusari, even though they arrived far afterward and have been living in ioslation? Do the french love having sex or something?

[Dab]

So then, what is the point of naming them that way? I'm looking at this from an RP point of view.

So are you saying it's OORP for Londonderry to be classified as Bretonian?

So say the Bretonia lands and forms the kingdom of bretonia. Then they go out, explore, include some systems to form Bretonia (the reigeon). However, eventually, now they have a huge kingdom spanning over so many systems, its almost ridiculous. However, half of these don't even have the presence of the Bretonian Kingdom.

Again, here you're mistaking region and controlled..Just because they scout it out doesn't mean it's part of the Kingdom.

Okinawa: As said, it is owned completley by the GMG. Then why is it even under the Kusari region? Shouldn't it be an independant system? It runs itself independantly, without the influence of the Kusari Empire (to some extent).

Because it's still part of the Kusari region. Both systems it's connected to are Kusarian. It's in the region designated Kusari; The northern, western, and core of the Crow Nebula. It may run itself independently, but that doesn't mean it should be classified as independent instead of Kusari. Especially when Kishiro is Kusarian, GMG is mostly made up of Kusarians. GC and BD are Kusarians..

All the guard systems of unlawful factions: They too, run themselves independantly. For the sake of OORP and RP sense, I think they should be independant of border/edgeworlds.

Iverness (ehh, the only NPCs here are junkers...)
Chester (nomads? I suppose this could be included in bretonia...)
Yukon (only zoner bases here)

Are Liberty Rogues Libertonians out pirating? Yes. Is their system in the same region as the other Libertonian systems? Yes. So it's also part of the region of space designated Liberty.

Yes, I admit that there should not be many. But this is also to expand player feel of the place, as well as NPC feel. Obviously, there are few "major major" cities, but shouldn't there be a few "lesser major" cities as well? Currently in discovery we have

4 major system - I'm fine.

100 mini-systems with 1 or no bases - ehh... 1 base can be counted as a smaller city now? Okay, some systems like tau 29 - fine. But how many of them are there? maybe 3 in a house?

Systems like Tau-29, Omega-3 and Omega-7, Sigma-13, Tau-31, Tau-23, etc would all be classified as 'lesser major' cities there bud.

Also, please don't exaggerate. We don't have a hundred mini-systems with 1-2 bases. Very few systems have only 1 base, and most of those are guard systems. All the empty ones are empty simply because there aren't enough system devs to do them all. Also, it makes no sense for all the systems in Sirius to be populated, lightly or heavily. Who the heck is going to populate Omicron Lost for example?

Ok, I get it. But still, it doesn't make sense for independantly run systems to even be under the bretonian region of space. Independant systems should be labled independant systems. Or should be in the border/edge worlds, where no-one gives a damn. It doesn't really make sense, in my opinion, for independant systems to be included in even the house reigon. The region of space would be... entirely known to the government would it not? Therefore regions of space such as Lewis would be able to fall in a few seconds.

What is your definition of 'region of space' then? Should the Bretonian region only include those under the exclusive control of the Bretonian Government? If so, then it isn't a region, it's a collection of controlled systems.. And I don't know where you get the assumption that the government would know where every system is.. Chugoku, home of the Blood Dragons, is part of the Kyushu region. This is from Vanilla even.. However, Kusari didn't know it's location until 4.84, and then they only knew where one jumphole was, and had yet to locate Kyoto. They send in a few patrols occasionally, all of which get destroyed.. You're giving the houses way too much credit. They can't know where every system is, or where every jumphole is. When the U.S. bought the Louisiana Purchase from France, did they know where everything inside of it was? Nope. Took them a few decades to map out the entire thing, and France hadn't even begun to map it to any great extent. The colonization of Sirius can be paralleled to the Western World's colonization.

1. Arrived late in sirius
2. would have at least spent another 100-200 years gathering intelligence on tradelanes/jumpgates, possibly 300
3. And yet have 5 BORDERWORLD systems FULLY populated, not even including New Paris and the other "core" systems? I assume this would mean that the core systems will have nothing in them? Even so, Gallia has 5-6 fully-populated systems. A little over the top, considering that Kusari has 4, Bretonia has 5, Rheinland has 5, and Liberty also has 5. Also consider the size of those systems. Look at Burgundy for example, is waaay more populated than say... Pennsylvania, possibly even Colorado. Probably more than Newcastle too. That also goes for most of the other gallic border systems. So somehow we are meant to understand that Gallia has a population at least 1.5 if not 2 times the size o Kusari, even though they arrived far afterward and have been living in ioslation? Do the french love having sex or something?

Again; Do not compare Gallia to the rest of Sirius. They may have a big infrastructure, but the population is also lower. Their inhabited planets aren't heavily populated, nor are the stations. Also, it's simply not something you can compare, as the situation was and is completely different.


I'm going to compare Sirius to our world.. North America. That's a region of the world, a continent. Now, is everything inside of North America part of the 'North American Government'? No. Especially since there isn't a North American Government. There is the United States, Canada, Mexico. All independently governed.. South America, same thing, only more countries, smaller countries. All still independently controlled. Should we call Brazil part of the 'Independent Regions' or should we call Brazil part of South America.. That's the same thing here. Do we call Chester part of the 'Independent Systems' or part of Bretonia, the region of space it sits smack in the middle of?

---

[reavengitair]

So are you saying it's OORP for Londonderry to be classified as Bretonian?

In a way, yes.

Are Liberty Rogues Libertonians out pirating? Yes. Is their system in the same region as the other Libertonian systems? Yes. So it's also part of the region of space designated Liberty.

Their system is an independant world. What are you talking about!

Systems like Tau-29, Omega-3 and Omega-7, Sigma-13, Tau-31, Tau-23, etc would all be classified as 'lesser major' cities there bud.

Also, please don't exaggerate. We don't have a hundred mini-systems with 1-2 bases. Very few systems have only 1 base, and most of those are guard systems. All the empty ones are empty simply because there aren't enough system devs to do them all. Also, it makes no sense for all the systems in Sirius to be populated, lightly or heavily. Who the heck is going to populate Omicron Lost for example?

So therefore, in Kusari we have

4 major systems
2, maybe 3 (if you include Hokkaido, which I don't...) lesser systems (kinda the equvalient to lesser cities)

In Liberty, we have...

4 major systems
2 lesser systems (Ontario, pennsylvania?)

Shouldn't there be more "lesser" systems than "major" systems?

What is your definition of 'region of space' then? Should the Bretonian region only include those under the exclusive control of the Bretonian Government? If so, then it isn't a region, it's a collection of controlled systems.. And I don't know where you get the assumption that the government would know where every system is.. Chugoku, home of the Blood Dragons, is part of the Kyushu region. This is from Vanilla even.. However, Kusari didn't know it's location until 4.84, and then they only knew where one jumphole was, and had yet to locate Kyoto. They send in a few patrols occasionally, all of which get destroyed.. You're giving the houses way too much credit. They can't know where every system is, or where every jumphole is. When the U.S. bought the Louisiana Purchase from France, did they know where everything inside of it was? Nope. Took them a few decades to map out the entire thing, and France hadn't even begun to map it to any great extent. The colonization of Sirius can be paralleled to the Western World's colonization.

A region of space, in my opinion, is a system that...

1. At least has some presence or form of that house's presence
2. Is known to the leading government (Kingdom of Bretonia, Kusari Empire, etc)
3. Is not independantly controlled
4. Was discovered first by the house, or was bought over, etc.

And a few more, but I think thats enough for now.

So therefore:

Yukon:

Freeport-14 is the latest addition to
the Zoner Freeports family. Located in a
desolate and unexplored Yukon system

Should not be a part of the Liberty Republic.

Iverness should not really be a part of the Kingdom of Bretonia, nor should Oita be a part of the Kusari Empire (although discovered by the Kusari Empire at first, it pretty much has nothing in it, and I believe that each house has a responsibility to uphold systems in their region, or sacrifice the system's status as under that region to borderworld/independant/edgeworld. It appears the only thing Kusarian in Oita is the music, the background, and the one lone wreck of a fighter. It also is bordered by the LPI guard system and the LSF system.)

The only house I am really happy with, is Rheinland, where each system at least has a some kind of presence of that house's official lawful organisations. This is what I would at least like to see in other houses.

[Dab]

So therefore, in Kusari we have

4 major systems
2, maybe 3 (if you include Hokkaido, which I don't...) lesser systems (kinda the equvalient to lesser cities)

New Tokyo, Honshu, Kyushu, Shikoku
Tau-29, Hokkaido, Nagano, Okinawa

4 Major, 4 Minor, not counting Guard systems.
And I haven't a clue why you woudn't count Hokkaido. KNF BS, Samura station, Gate project, Gate to Kusari's Capital.

In Liberty, we have...

4 major systems
2 lesser systems (Ontario, pennsylvania?)

New York, Colorado, California, Texas
Pennsylvania, Yukon, Ontario, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Ontario

4 Major, 5 Minor, not counting Guard systems or Alaska.

Shouldn't there be more "lesser" systems than "major" systems?

As you can see, it's even or more already..

A region of space, in my opinion, is a system that...

1. At least has some presence or form of that house's presence
2. Is known to the leading government (Kingdom of Bretonia, Kusari Empire, etc)
3. Is not independantly controlled
4. Was discovered first by the house, or was bought over, etc.

And right here is your problem.. A region doesn't require presence or sovereignty of any government. You can't dispute the Border Worlds are a region.. And they aren't controlled by anyone. There's a region without a 'house' in it, let along controlloing it. Omicron Gamma, Theta, Alpha, etc, aren't known to any of the five houses. Furthermore, they are independently controlled; Omicron Alpha and Beta by OC, Gamma by Corsairs, Theta by Zoners, etc. And none of these were discovered first by a house.. You're problem lies in the fact that you've mistaken the definition for REGION and TERRITORY. A TERRITORY is something that requires a governing body.

Marriam-Webster Dictionary
Territory;
a : a geographic area belonging to or under the jurisdiction of a governmental authority

Marriam-Webster Dictionary
Region;
a : an indefinite area of the world or universe b : a broad geographic area distinguished by similar features c (1) : a major world area that supports a characteristic fauna (2) : an area characterized by the prevalence of one or more vegetational climax types

You've got the two words backwards. What you described as your vision of a region is the exact meaning of a territory.. These belong to regions, like the Bretonian Region, not the Bretonian Territory.

And if you're proud that Rheinland has a presence in all its systems.. You haven't gone many places in Rheinland then. There are plenty of examples of it.

---

[pieguy259]

Again; Do not compare Gallia to the rest of Sirius. They may have a big infrastructure, but the population is also lower. Their inhabited planets aren't heavily populated, nor are the stations. Also, it's simply not something you can compare, as the situation was and is completely different.

Actually, according to Igiss, Gallia is the most heavily populated House. Which is a debate for another time.

I look at it this way. Liberty might lay claim to Yukon, it might say "this system is ours so hands off", but there is no realistic way it can enforce it. So yes, technically, according to Liberty, it is under their jurisdiction. In practice, it's another matter. Same with Bretonia and, say Orkney.

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Actually, according to Igiss, Gallia is the most heavily populated House. Which is a debate for another time.

In total, yes. But their border worlds aren't quite as heavily populated as you would think. They also control significantly more space for that population to spread through.

I look at it this way. Liberty might lay claim to Yukon, it might say "this system is ours so hands off", but there is no realistic way it can enforce it. So yes, technically, according to Liberty, it is under their jurisdiction. In practice, it's another matter. Same with Bretonia and, say Orkney.

Again, Region and Territory, don't confuse the two.

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