Admin Notice: Players Sanctioned and Jailed

[Agmen of Eladesor]

Crimson.Reaver and Copper;Reaver have been sanctioned for:

6.10 Player reputation and conduct must match player actions. For instance a player may not dock on a base belonging to the persons whom they are attacking or being attacked by.

Consequences: You are mercenaries. You may freely collect bounties and accept bribes. If the person you have stopped freely offers you a bribe, you may or may not at your discretion take that bribe. "Yes I'm extorting you" is the same thing as piracy. So... your bank accounts are stripped (as are your ships), and your ships are in jail for 7 days. Post here to be released.

Admin Link to Report

COMPLETE SERVER RULES

BEFORE YOU POST

If you post in this sanction and are not directly involved or a leader of the accused person's faction be advised
that you are consenting to be subjected to the reprisal of my choice which may involve in game repercussions
up to a ban.

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Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.

[Dusty Lens]

So I may accept a bribe.

But I may not suggest that a bribe may be given?

Just for clarification. Or something. Because I'm pretty much 100% lost on what you're on about.

Feel free to explain in full.

[Virus]

I whole-heartedly object to this. So you're saying instead of offering them to pay us to not kill them as we were hired, we should have simply said, "You're worth 2 million, die." and killed them? Causing them to lose what? 100 million worth of cargo?

And you're consequence for what would be my second sanction in multiple years (the last sanction being completely unrelated) is deleting my credits and bastilling my fighter for 7 days... ?

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Into the Maelstrom - A Measure of Salvation - Reaver Company Database

[Dusty Lens]

- edit. Image pending.

While I'm working on uploading the chat logs I cordially invite you to find a rule which actually applies to the situation.

[Dusty Lens]

So while the chatlogs are being uploaded for the consideration of yourself and the community I would like you to do the following for me.

A) I would like you to specify exactly what you mean by a bribe versus extortion.
B) I would like you to explain the difference between taking a bribe from a target who has been identified by a bounty and piracy.
C) I would like you to present to me where this is clearly described in the rules of this server in a fashion which would provide a reasonable example of a source of information from which a person should be expected to educate themselves.
D) I would like you to specify an example of a sanction of this time via precedence.
E) I would like you to justify the ludicrous harshness of this sanction via examples of precedence.

If you wanted the thoughts on someone who admined on this server for a long time I'll suggest some answers.

A) I couldn't tell you Dusty. Because it isn't illustrated in the rules.
B) Well. I guess if they were pirates they would be placing RP demands on anyone... As opposed to specific bountied targets in order to let them off the hook or provide a better deal? But then I said bribes are ok? But I guess I'm not sure what I mean by a bribe being ok versus piracy. Dammit this sanction is confusing and ill concieved.
C) Oh damn I can't.
D) Oh damn I can't.
E) Oh damn I can't.

Feel free to let the second person involved in judging this sanction speak their voice too.

There... Is a second persons... Isn't there?

[Virus]

Good thing I thought it was a funny enough conversation to keep around, eh?

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Into the Maelstrom - A Measure of Salvation - Reaver Company Database

[Dusty Lens]

(( - CO[color=#009900]NTRACTNo: - [color=#003300]([color=#33FF33]8))

Target: BAF| BPA) QCP| BMM- BowEx) Gateway) - Tagged ships
Issuer: Zoey Sakura
Payment: 2 million credits per kill.
Other Information: - Valid anywhere in Sirius, remember to tell them: "Zoey Sakura says Hi"
Total Payout: 100 million credits. No contract bonus.

For anyone wishing evidence as to the contract.

[Montezuma/Kukulcan]

As the reporter, i would just like to say that i could have coped with being blown up (not sure about Skipper, you'd have to ask him), but i really do not like it when someone knows they have someone else stuck in a situation where they are already going to profit from their death, and exploits it to get as much as they can, that strikes me as plain greed. And as far as i am concerned, you should have blown me up, if i were you i would have blown me up, the ore was easily re-minable, and credits are all re-earnable.

There isnt a precise rule you violated i dont think (though im not an Admin), but the Merc ID clearly states, right in the middle of the description "*Can not pirate". And what you did was not 'suggest a bribe be offered', in fact as well as the "Yes, i am extorting you" line, you also gave a "Give Crimson his five million NOW Bowex" line.

This is about as far from dropping a suggestion that you might be paid off as you could get.

In my opinion, greed, and blatant disregard for ID rules is not something that should be permitted to pass.


As for the difference, while i am not an admin, i would say that if the target offers you money, it is a bribe, if you demand money in return for not attacking the target (which you did), it is extortion, a.k.a piracy.


Oh and that contract does not mention anywhere you are allowed to extort the victim, only destroy them.

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[Agmen of Eladesor]

Mercs are free to take bribes. That's long been accepted, same as the LPI can accept bribes.

As you have shown in your posting of the conversation, the bounty on the party in question was 2 million credits, 4 million credits total. That's within your ID parameters to do. When you effectively order the Bowex ship to pay you 3 times that amount to be let go or be destroyed, and stated that you were extorting him for that, you were committing piracy then, which is not allowed by your ID and is a violation of rule 6.10.

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Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.

[Virus]

As the reporter, i would just like to say that i could have coped with being blown up (not sure about Skipper, you'd have to ask him), but i really do not like it when someone knows they have someone else stuck in a situation where they are already going to profit from their death, and exploits it to get as much as they can, that strikes me as plain greed.

There isnt a precise rule you violated, but the Merc ID clearly states, right in the middle of the description "*Can not pirate". And what you did was not 'suggest a bribe be offered', in fact as well as the "Yes, i am extorting you" line, you also gave a "Give Crimson his five million NOW Bowex" line.

This is about as far from dropping a suggestion that you might be paid off as you could get.

In my opinion, greed, and blatant disregard for ID rules is not something that should be permitted to pass.
As for the difference, while i am not an admin, i would say that if the target offers you money, it is a bribe, if you demand money (which you did), it is extortion, a.k.a piracy.
Oh and that contract does not mention anywhere you are allowed to extort the victim, only destroy them.

I've always thought that Mercenaries are greedy guys. I mean, if I can squeeze 3 extra credits out of my employer, I'm going to do it. It'd be totally unlike my character to not do it. Mercs aren't there to make friends, afterall. They're there make cold, hard cash. Cold being the key word.

We came to this situation with two options: A) Just open fire, B) Play with the scenario. We chose B. Which we thought was the better option at the time, had a good time, and moved on. No complaints in private chat, so we thought nothing of it.

Besides, if you had a severe problem with it, you could have used the green chat and // to at least, you know... Talk to us about it. We're decent people. If we agree we were too harsh, we'll give you your credits back. Your first response SHOULD NOT be going straight to an admin.



Agmen, you're arguing semantics. "You can take a bribe, BUT NOT LIKE THAT." Come on. And how does 6.10 come into play with this? For all they know, I'm dead red to the Bowex, BAF, BMM, BPA, etc. We were in Rheinland in the middle of nowhere with no one coming for help. Our reputations were not in question.

What this sanction does is tell us that we should not ever do anything risky or we will be sanctioned. Stick directly to our roles without any logical variation or you get hammered down. This is a game, not a well-scripted military exercise.

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Into the Maelstrom - A Measure of Salvation - Reaver Company Database