I have never understood why the vanilla gamme should be the only reference for interpreting Zoner RP, although I would never refuse to listen to a complete Zoner RP creation. Some things, when comparing vanilla Zoners with their Disco interpretation, might seem to be contradicting, but I would like to have a very detailed explanation/justification for any static Zoner RP definition. The vanilla rumours are hinting on certain things that are not always compliant with the Disco interpretation, sure, but I still cannot see overwhelming arguments why the Zoners would or could never develop, as they have within the Disco interpretation. I would rather amend the string resources of the mod, thus fitting into the implicit Disco definition, than trying to cripple possibilities. If there is another Zoner nerfing goint to happen I would like overwhelming and incontestable reasons for, because nobody might want another nerf but it would be one nevertheless.
Interpretations are to be made cautiously ...
Quote:The Zoners philosophy is to not antagonize anyone. We wish to coexist in peace with all factions in the Sirius sector, whether they are criminal or government. Zoners who cannot abide by this code are asked to leave.
This quote for example tells us nothing about things that could happen if any Sirian group would wage war on Zoners. If the underlying definition of being peaceful is automatically implying unreflecting self-sacrifice I would probably agree, but in a real Sirius such individuals would never be mentioned because they would fade in their beginnings, while still thinking about how to oroganize their movement, or they would have enough power to afford the luxury of remaining peaceful. Peace is not a one-way-street, so peaceful people might get drawn into conflicts without being responsible. One reason why Zoners should be able to sustain a peaceful attitude could be their supreme technology. It is nothing else but a matter of interpretation of course, and only one example.
I would like to regard the Zoner RP from different point of view: Is there any complete and logical definition which can satisfy the needs of Zoner players without inflating their possibilities unnecessarily? And, how much do players really need for good RP? Should a final definition really be possible?
Things I can easily answer for myself:
I agree that the Jinkusu should be put to the domain of SRP, and I would demand large obstacles to gain the permission to fly one, kind of a VSRP.
I can agree that the Aquillion can be restricted, more by numbers than in design, or concering its belonging.
The Fearless is nice as it is.
The Corvo is very nice, as it should keep its purpose to be mostly used by explorers and scientists.
The ZBT can be deleted as it is now, or it should get room for another thousand units of cargo. Uh, I guess I would like to put it to SRP then.
I also feel unease when regarding the huge amount of Zoner bases and possibilties provided by many ship types, while asking myself who the hell is going to RP it all, but I fear that this exceedingly generous offer is more a general issue of a huge game universe. Resetting only Zoners to their vanilla state would not fix anything, regarding RP at least.
Finally, the basic question we are facing here is if we can find a proper and commonly accepted definition for the Zoner RP within the scope of their evolution on Disco. The vanilla state will never work, because there is not enough substantial information but too much room for speculations, while Zoners should still have to go a long way until they will be able to form a House. I would like to keep it that way because it provides enough incentive to develop the Zoners further. Static definitions are like snapshots, lifeless, but the supposed paradox of playing characters who are struggling to remain neutral, while trying to find their way through a suicidal as also sanguinary universe, is intriguiing compared to the flat definitions of other NPC factions. It requires permanent change.
Zoner RP is based on contradictions:
Zoners as a whole want to sustain their neutrality while individual Zoner are often choosing sides. Then again, they would never admit it.
Zoners do not like the colonial governments, but they are desiring a homeworld on their own, which would start as a colony, and which would need some kind of a government.
Zoners are peaceful but they are dealing with weapons.
Zoners like to explore the Edge Worlds, often out of curiosity, but they would still not share these spaces with alien civilizations. They want to be treated unbiased but they are fighting Nomads whereever they can.
Can you provide more contradictions?
If there is to be a definition for Zoner RP it should be built upon such contradictions, because contradictions are very lifelike.
Quote:I agree that the Jinkusu should be put to the domain of SRP, and I would demand large obstacles to gain the permission to fly one, kind of a VSRP.
You would be taking away RP that has been there for years, including mine. Marvin was my first RP Story. Ever. My juggernaut has 900 hours logged.
' Wrote:How convenient...Gallia invades, lets take all the ships from zoners and reduce them to a fishing fleet so that Gallians can have it even easier.
Oh, but lets cover all this thing with ...hmmm rplay?
Going to be very short on this one.
Zoners are not a faction that can stand up to Gallia in a knock down drag out war. They will lose if they attempt to stand up to Gallia. Same as the IMG.
You'll also notice who is making this suggestion. This isn't the development team or admins so quite acting like they are out to ruin your day. I made this post because I am dissatisfied with the current mess that the developers have left Zoner lore/RP in. Notice the response from other Zoner leadership? They are at least in partial agreement with me. I knew they were because this has been being discussed amongst us for quite awhile.
Is my view extreme and far more than what the other leaders have in mind? Yes.
Now, I'll ask that you not post again unless you are posting something that is a valid counter to the ideas and suggestions I have presented as opposed to the Q.Q; and before you make up your mind I am a dick, talk to the other Zoner players you converse with or even PM me on Skype. I am not a dick. I am merely trying to fix what is broken with a faction I enjoy playing. Be it by asking those who also enjoy playing the faction to sacrifice things so the faction can have coherent role play or by the development team understanding that what they have given us doesn't match up with what I have been told is their intent for Zoners.
By doing this, you will cause nothing but collateral damage, and the overall population of zoners will sorely decrease.
Sigh.
See, only proving you have no idea what you are talking about.
Notice the posts here by other Zoner leaders. This topic has been discussed internally for a while now. Reason you don't know is because you don't care about any Zoner role play that isn't your own.
Before you claim that I don't care about any Zoner role play that isn't mine; I'll point you to your own role play. You barely role play a Zoner at all, yet you haven't been bothered by me or any of the other Zoner leaders.
' Wrote:~Make the Jinkusu SRP only.
Why? It is such a large ship that it would be incredibly difficult to produce and once built it would only be commanded by a Zoner who is trusted by the rest of the Zoner community. Meaning a player who has a very firm grasp of Zoner role play.
~Remove the Aquilon or give it to another faction.
Why? Zoners don't condone violence. They try to make peace with all and not antagonize anyone. A war ship antagonizes others.
~Remove the Fearless
Why? Same reason as the Aquilon and trust me, it pains me to say this because I love the Fearless.
~Change the Corvo
If Jinx's new model is used, reduce its size to that of a gunboat, balance it as a gunboat, and then make it a new addition to the border world line.
~ Zoner Border World Transport, Whale
Open this vessel up to either the IMG or GMG and change the role play of it. Make it a join project between the GMG or IMG. Vanilla Zoners weren't big enough to warrant their own 5k transport. The GMG doesn't have it and in role play it is by far the larger of the two factions.
~Quit adding in Zoner stations.
We already have more than any other single faction and we can barely manage those. Some are rarely even mentioned. Hell, most Zoner players don't even know about the two in Omega-50.
~Gran Canaria needs to be addressed.
Finding a planet to call their own was part of the vanilla Zoners' goals. They were looking for one in 800 AS. Giving us one that is a paradise voids that goal and would mean Zoners become far more organized. Having a planet to colonize and a full cap ship line would mean Zoners are becoming a mini house much like the CR. Meaning neutrality would be lost and a government of some type would be formed.
~Remove GMG as an ally.
The relationship between Zoners and the GMG is basically just a trade alliance. If GMG are fighting anyone else other than some nomads or wilde, Zoners don't get involved. The relationship between Zoners and GMG is very much on the same level as that of the IMG and Zoners; yet IMG and Zoners aren't allied. Removing it wouldn't cause a change in role play, nor would leaving it in. However, it being listed can give new Zoner players the wrong impression.
<strike>1) As it stands currently, the SRP system is closed. As it stood previously, the SRP system had a turnaround time of six weeks. It is commonly referred to as broken, and quite frankly, is. That, and there are very few misbehaving Juggernauts. Go on, have a whinge about Freeport_13 today being destroyed in NY. It happens, no reason to punish the lot.</strike> (Pointless I suppose, since you three "leaders" sent your request to SRP Juggernaut. Eh.)
2) No idea where you got that from. We condone defence. Hell, the ZDF teaches us that. You know, that thing you created? No doubt I see some gargantuan explanation of how you do not use capital ships. Either way, I see little reason to remove it, but at least there is some reason behind this part of the proposal.
3) We protect our convoys. The Fearless was one of our first ventures into the capital ship line. Along with the original Leaviathan. No reason to remove it.
4) It seems fitting that we the Corvo. Non-warship, research vessel that is large. It suits the people that want a big ship without the firepower. It should be made more open, perhaps green celled even.
5) No problem with opening up the 5k to GMG. They are our allies after all. Perhaps then we can get access to some of their VHF?:P
6) Agreed. Remove some of our redundant stations. The only time I visited the ones in Omega 50 were on my SCRA|.
7) Remove Planet GC. Have it bombed by nomads or The Wild. Get the trade routes to manuever the people from Pennsylvania to a Juggernaut which is part of a "roaming fleet" as this would suit our RP more.
' Wrote:2) No idea where you got that from. We condone defence. Hell, the ZDF teaches us that. You know, that thing you created? No doubt I see some gargantuan explanation of how you do not use capital ships. Either way, I see little reason to remove it, but at least there is some reason behind this part of the proposal.
3) We protect our convoys. The Fearless was one of our first ventures into the capital ship line. Along with the original Leaviathan. No reason to remove it.
4) It seems fitting that we the Corvo. Non-warship, research vessel that is large. It suits the people that want a big ship without the firepower. It should be made more open, perhaps green celled even.
8) What?
2) Where do I get that idea? Here quotes from the second post in this very thread. Quotes from vanilla.
Quote:133908 The Zoners philosophy is to not antagonize anyone. We wish to coexist in peace with all factions in the Sirius sector, whether they are criminal or government. Zoners who cannot abide by this code are asked to leave. They often become Bounty Hunters. So we have a special relationship with the Guild.
Elijah Martin wrote:We run sidearms in from Hamburg. The senior council of the station is split on that policy, as Zoners do not condone violence. However, it's profitable and it fulfills a need for the criminals to visit our base.
If you had read my other posts in the thread, you'll notice I've acknowledge that the Fearless has a very firm and justified role play purpose. That is the defense of the Freeports. The combo of the Fearless and supporting snub craft are more than capable of defending any Freeport from most attacks. Those attacks that would destroy the Freeport would come from enemies that can already over come our defenses.
4) My idea was simply a method of opening the ship up to the general public in a way that might get accepted. I really don't see the admins allowing a open market cruiser, even if it is very poor combat wise.
8) We share the same relationship with the GMG that we share with the IMG, yet we are not allied to the IMG. If you want to argue that it is only the factions that share that relationship I'll point to the Aquilon (though moot since I want it removed.). Since you know, the history is that it was a join venture with IMG that produced it. Would removing them as an ally change our role play with them? No. We already don't help them in fights due to our neutrality (unless against nomads/wilde/etc).
All in all you don't disagree with as much as you made out in Skype. What you do disagree with I expected you to disagree with.
As a confession this thread served more than one purpose. I wanted to demonstrate exactly how messed up Zoner RP is to the development team. I wanted to verify that the official factions could indeed guide our NPC factions lore/RP. It also seems suggesting the removal of toys sparked a few indie Zoners into voicing their opinions, something the Alliance is missing right now.
You know, replacing Gran Canaria with a both a dockable Jinkusu and a dockable Carrier as protector would solve both the issue of an impossible population spike in a span of 20 years and provide in game visual aids to the use and RP of both those ships (the opportunity as in filling in rumours and infocards with appropriate RP related to the ships' purposes). Perhaps they are in the asteroid debris of a destroyed GC or in orbit of a smoldering GC or with a simple complete removal of GC.
Possible?
Edit add: I think it's possible this might be the only change needed, the rest just done in player RP as they see fit from the examples.
Edit add 2: at post below, lmfao that is precisely the description for the mining mod situation as well but the 50 bucks of that 100 was taken back relatively fast compared to the Zoner candy (this is even if the Zoner candy gets touched), my a lot of people getting furious but who were still 50 bucks richer then if the whole thing was never started in the first place, it was a pretty good chuckle.
Quote:If you had read my other posts in the thread, you'll notice I've acknowledge that the Fearless has a very firm and justified role play purpose. That is the defense of the Freeports. The combo of the Fearless and supporting snub craft are more than capable of defending any Freeport from most attacks. Those attacks that would destroy the Freeport would come from enemies that can already over come our defenses.
Give a person 100 bucks. Then take 50 back.
Person's final reaction: Furious.
End result: He has 50 bucks more than he had yesterday.
' Wrote:You would be taking away RP that has been there for years, including mine. Marvin was my first RP Story. Ever. My juggernaut has 900 hours logged.
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