Fall of the +LE+

[Jack_Henderson]

Sad to see +LE+ go unofficial. I agree it is terribly hard to be active in anything that is connected to Gallia. Also weird to see that the decision was forced like this if there are reasons that can be fielded to ask for "mercy".

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[Dusty Lens]

I agree. As stated in my earlier post which I'm glad to see some have agreed with. Just because a faction is unable to meet the requirements it agrees to when going for official status does not mean that they should be disbanded. If anything the nature of the agreement should be reconsidered in light of how difficult the faction finds the task of meeting their end of the bargain.

Firthermore, just because an official faction is unable to attract members or interest them in participating in game does not mean that the legitimacy of the leaders station in dictating faction policy or managing their larger agenda should be stripped. Now there's no one to move the Brigands in any direction, which is far worse than someone moving them in what appears to be a doomed direction of inactivity and disinterest.

Maybe it's time to do away with factions entirely as a system of legitimacy backed by mandate effected by invested participation and move to a system of elected representatives who are free to maintain station in an officially recognized fashion on the basis of forum poll votes.

For example. When the CR disbanded there was a leadership vaccume. On one hand some might say that waiting until the next person with the vision and ability to lead a prosperous group that is able to provide a competitive and engaging gameplay experience is best for both that faction and the server. To e honest that sounds great, but it's generally the sort of thing that most they come into contact withw oils call lolwutism. Better, I'd say, to provide an opportunity for an old hand from the earlier faction to stand as a patron of the faction to guide it through his or her knowledge of what works best, regardless of how that earlier iteration may have failed due to the balance of the server being out of favor, or a litany of other issues which were in no way the fault of the previous faction. As we see in the case of the +LE+ and their time demands being unreasonably high, being punished by the admins (of whom one had an eye on the Brigands slot. Conincidence? Sure. I bet.) for forging diplomacy and refusal to grant them the ID that they needed to survive.

It worked for King Arthur. I think it could work here.

[Dab]

I really don't see LE's failure as "Gallia's failure". Yes, the current system setup makes piracy hard, but keep in mind there is a SINGLE jumphole in and out of the entire house for lawfuls to use (lawfuls aren't using Omi-80). There are also the Taus, which are in your ZoI, which are easy to pirate and have large numbers of miners. Then there is smuggling of Cardamine, Nox, Cryocubes, many different things that you could have participated in and didn't.

LE's failure was based on two things;
1.) You were playing a role that didn't correspond to your ID. You were told this over and over and over by dozens of people. You were Council, or Maquis. You were Never Brigands. You used that ID because an official faction already had the Council ID. You then prevented any other faction from using the Brigand ID as Brigands. So, as of yet, Gallia has never had a real Brigand faction except for Del's very short-lived attempt that was unofficial. LE always said "No, we're nothing like the Council, we're Brigands". But then you said; "LE are Maquis Council Brigands" (Direct quote). The LE itself can't seem to decide what it is, it's no surprise your recruitment dried up and people lost interest. It's also why a lot of people haven't looked at you as legitimate.

2.) Loss of interest and laziness.
As I said above; Your members lost interest in using their characters, and people stopped applying for recruitment. When the faction doesn't have direction or goals, the members aren't going to keep logging on to do the same old thing every day.

Then there is the leader effect. Most factions on Discovery run off of their faction leader. There are very few over the years that haven't. A faction's activity is a direct result of the activity of its leader of High Command. Over 30 days, the faction leader himself should have at least 12 hours of activity amongst his characters, and he needs to whip his members online.


In short, LE had no direction, no goals, diplomacy that only limited the activities it could do in-game, and an identity crisis. Blaming Gallia doesn't work when the other Gallic factions have all managed to meet their activity requirements. The only two factions to lose official status in Gallia (excepting GMS who did so voluntarily) are LE and GRP. GRP, like LE, lost status (the first time, they are official again) because Shagohad, the leader, lost interest and the faction had a lack of goals and direction. After this happened, the remaining members started again from scratch and brought it back. LE has the same chance. But LE needs some serious reworking to really be successful. You can't be Council players using Brigand IDs anymore. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to be a Maquis faction or rework your background/goals to be more in-line with Brigands. Right now the LE history/background is almost a carbon copy of the Council.

Personally, I think the best result is for the LE to merge into [C]. Gives C a membership and activity boost, LE can be a sub-unit of the [C], retaining some of their autonomy ([C-LE] tag or something), and for the LE to be using the ID it should have from the start. That or you can continue unofficial, in which case I highly recommend moving to Council and/or Maquis IDs, which fit your faction far more than Brigand ever did.

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[Dubstep]

I agree with Dab. Well, not on the merging thing. [C-LE] looks really ugly as a tag.

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[RoS]Dubstep[W]

[dodike]

Brigands ID has been liberated, that's good news, right?

[SMI-Great.Fox]

Are you saying the LE represented the Brigands as a whole?
The way I see it, it's one less Official Faction with a questionable backstory.
Thankfully the LE died before it got anything in game, so noone has to deal with that while playing.

We'll be back when/if Gallia is fixed in 4.87. So don't think we're gone forever. Not by a long shot. ;)

To everyone else who has spoken here. I can point out that several of you have never tried to play a brigand character, and yet you all act like experts in such. Until you actually try to be one, and see and deal with what we have had to deal with, hold your tongues.

And dab, not one of us we're lazy. Not all of us were able to get on all at the same time to make a substancial force, you can blame timezones and such for that. We had direction. We had goals. The only thing stopping us was the [censored] poor playing field we had to work with and the lack of our enemies being where we were able to go and fight them. As for time wise you said for its leader? Let me show you something.

+LE+Salbris 08/07/2012 22:42:21 05:16:26
+LE+Griffe.de.Valence 03/07/2012 17:30:26 05:02:57
+LE+Galli.Contre 03/07/2012 17:27:19 01:06:06
+LE+Rick.Astley 29/06/2012 21:03:43 01:03:56

You said that the faction's activity is a direct result of the activity of its leader of High Command? Well those times are what I put into, granted they are smaller due to the time rollbacks. But a great deal of the activity was by me trying to get our guys going despite knowing the Everest they had to climb by being a Brigand each time they logged on.

Don't blame the the +LE+ for failing to get it's people motivated. We were Atlas carrying the brunt force of the difficulties in being an unlawful in gallia in 4.85 and 4.86. We made it work, no matter how much weight was pushed against us by how the system was. And I promise you, we will go once again for officialdom once we know we have the ability to pirate the living [censored] out of Gallia.

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[Joker's-Thug-Clawey]

If the slot was free, maybe. But I doubt it will but then its just my thoughts.

My advice: Doing something that is not ok with the community will always be a fail.

Thats it.

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[Ipuvaepe]

Six hours per member over a thirty day period is harsh.

No, it's really not. That's asking each member to put in 15 minutes every week day, 1 hour 15 minutes total every week.

Gallia was a bad idea, if official factions lose their official status as a result of people not wanting to be there then so be it.

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[Daedric]

Overly dramatic thread is overly dramatic. You didn't meet the standards required of you multiple times. You were warned multiple times. You were told if you would not be warned again. You failed to motivate your members to log in and play the game.

Blaming Gallia's faults doesn't work. The other Gallic official factions also deal with many of those same faults, yet they were able to meet the activity standard.

Don't blame the +LE+ for failing to motivate people to log in? It is 100% your fault for not motivating them to log in. 100% your fault. It is your job, as the faction leader, to get them in game and playing.

You want some advice? You should have adapted the +LE+. How do you think other factions keep their members active? We keep them interested and having fun. You failed to do that for the +LE+. You were well aware of the activity issue and instead of doing something about it, you blame the development team for faults with Gallia. Instead of adapting the +LE+ you spent time working on a request to get your own ID and such.

There were plenty of options for the +LE+, you just didn't pursue any of them because you didn't want to do so. They didn't fit with your idea of the +LE+ and thus not worth pursuing. You effectively forced yourself into a corner that wasn't friendly.

Now you're saying you're gone until 4.87? That is the kind of mentality that cost you your status. Regroup, reform, adapt the +LE+ and kick butt. Get your status back. Don't go hide in the shadows waiting on an update that you've no idea when it will be released.

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[Veygaar]

They can pirate in the Taus and in bits of Kusari. Bret didn't want to be a pirate faction though. He wanted to be the Council with a Brigand ID for some reason.

Don't worry, more "pirate-y" Brigands are up and coming;)One's who don't show mercy to a good target.

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