' Wrote:Secondly, OK, didn't soe it? Then dig up the seed and put it in the bin, if you don't want to reap it. Don't say you can't, if the combined leadership of the zoner official factions goes to Admins/Devs and demands something be changed, there is a fair chance it'll get seriously looked at, even done. I
Firstly I'd like an admin or developer to be very clear in if what Markam has said has any weight. I want to know if the Zoner leaders are in agreement and can provide solid reasoning as to why some Zoner things should be removed, modified, or retcon'd if they will be.
If that is too much, can we at least develop the Zoner NPC faction into something that makes sense? I'm told the development team prefers Zoners remain as fractured groups. Fractured groups wouldn't be able to protect a planet and design and produce a full cap ship line. There must be some form of organization/government in place for that to happen.
Onto my........ suggestions. Be warned I am not going to hint around the corner. I'd also ask that everyone not flame anyone (me included) for what I am suggesting. I know it will spark intense reactions in many Zoner players so please understand that I am not suggesting this to nerf Zoners, but to fix them.
Here we go:
~Make the Jinkusu SRP only.
Why? It is such a large ship that it would be incredibly difficult to produce and once built it would only be commanded by a Zoner who is trusted by the rest of the Zoner community. Meaning a player who has a very firm grasp of Zoner role play.
~Remove the Aquilon or give it to another faction.
Why? Zoners don't condone violence. They try to make peace with all and not antagonize anyone. A war ship antagonizes others.
~Remove the Fearless
Why? Same reason as the Aquilon and trust me, it pains me to say this because I love the Fearless.
~Change the Corvo
If Jinx's new model is used, reduce its size to that of a gunboat, balance it as a gunboat, and then make it a new addition to the border world line.
~ Zoner Border World Transport, Whale
Open this vessel up to either the IMG or GMG and change the role play of it. Make it a join project between the GMG or IMG. Vanilla Zoners weren't big enough to warrant their own 5k transport. The GMG doesn't have it and in role play it is by far the larger of the two factions.
~Quit adding in Zoner stations.
We already have more than any other single faction and we can barely manage those. Some are rarely even mentioned. Hell, most Zoner players don't even know about the two in Omega-50.
~Gran Canaria needs to be addressed.
Finding a planet to call their own was part of the vanilla Zoners' goals. They were looking for one in 800 AS. Giving us one that is a paradise voids that goal and would mean Zoners become far more organized. Having a planet to colonize and a full cap ship line would mean Zoners are becoming a mini house much like the CR. Meaning neutrality would be lost and a government of some type would be formed.
~Remove GMG as an ally.
The relationship between Zoners and the GMG is basically just a trade alliance. If GMG are fighting anyone else other than some nomads or wilde, Zoners don't get involved. The relationship between Zoners and GMG is very much on the same level as that of the IMG and Zoners; yet IMG and Zoners aren't allied. Removing it wouldn't cause a change in role play, nor would leaving it in. However, it being listed can give new Zoner players the wrong impression.
OR
~Allow Zoners to fuse what vanilla Zoners and disco Zoners are into one.<- This is the easiest option.
What do I mean? Well, we have a planet and a cap ship line. Neither of which can be protected or produced by anything less than a group which is organized to a modest degree. Allow Zoners to morph into something similar to the CR, as it seems we were pushed down that road by the developers.
The following post will have info cards, rumors, and such to support my statements. Yes, what I want to do is extreme but right now Zoner RP is..........fracked up beyond belief. Do the other Zoner leaders agree with me? Can't be 100% sure. I know on the ZA forum there are talks about all of the above.
Note: No posts QQ that I am trying to nerf Zoners. I tire of that attitude. I am merely trying to fix what is broken. The Rogues gave things up to fix what was broken with them, I am asking Zoners to think about doing the same.
~Zoners don't condone violence, they don't antagonize anyone, and they seek peace with all. Zoner leaders can also remove those who can't role play Zoners properly.
Quote:133908 The Zoners philosophy is to not antagonize anyone. We wish to coexist in peace with all factions in the Sirius sector, whether they are criminal or government. Zoners who cannot abide by this code are asked to leave. They often become Bounty Hunters. So we have a special relationship with the Guild.
Quote:Elijah Martin wrote:We run sidearms in from Hamburg. The senior council of the station is split on that policy, as Zoners do not condone violence. However, it's profitable and it fulfills a need for the criminals to visit our base.
~In 800 AS Zoners were in search of a planet to call their own, free from house influence.
Quote:Brad Howard wrote:The Corsairs and Outcasts are such violent people. I don't know where they went so wrong. Their need for space is something we Zoners share. We have settlers always pushing further into the dark edges of Sirius. One day we will find our own homeland out there, free from the rule of the corrupt governments and corporations of the colonies.
~Zoners are a small group in 800 AS. Very small. While it is true that we would grow over the years, not nearly to the extent that it seems we have in Disco.
Quote:What is the Freeport Population in 800 AS?
Ames: 200
Freeport 1: 2000
Freeport 2: 850
Freeport 5: 150
Freeport 6: 800
Freeport 9: 100
Freeport 10: 150
Total Estimated Population: 4250
Also note that I am not bothered by the intended uses or role play of each of the Zoner cap ships. All of them have fitting uses, problem is. Zoners in 800 AS were FAR FAR from having the ability to produce such large and expensive vessels themselves. Nor would they have a need for most of them.
I'm not a Zoner leader but 2 Fractions member so this are my 2 cents for that post Just an Opinion
' Wrote:~Make the Jinkusu SRP only.
Why? It is such a large ship that it would be incredibly difficult to produce and once built it would only be commanded by a Zoner who is trusted by the rest of the Zoner community. Meaning a player who has a very firm grasp of Zoner role play.
I Agree In One hundred percent is Too Many players try to shooting Zoners Depot Just because They Have enough Money and Try to get Zoner guard ID and Jinkusu
Quote:~Remove the Aquilon or give it to another faction.
Why? Zoners don't condone violence. They try to make peace with all and not antagonize anyone. A war ship antagonizes others.
yes and no.. with All mess with Galia expansion e gonna need at least one capital Ship But If we gonna do ZONER GUARD ID Given Only by Zoner Aliance liders That gonna fix a Problem with Indie Carriers Flying Around.
Quote:~Change the Corvo
If Jinx's new model is used, reduce its size to that of a gunboat, balance it as a gunboat, and then make it a new addition to the border world line.
Corvo is a specific Ship is not really cruiser.. compare it size and parameters is just a huge gunboat...Switch 9class guns to 8 and keep his research exploration status ....I dont see New Model yet..... But Again If we gonna made Zoner guard ID request only for zoner Fractions Users That should fix a Problem without switching a parameters of the ship.
Quote:~ Zoner Border World Transport, Whale
Open this vessel up to either the IMG or GMG and change the role play of it. Make it a join project between the GMG or IMG. Vanilla Zoners weren't big enough to warrant their own 5k transport. The GMG doesn't have it and in role play it is by far the larger of the two factions.
I Agree 100 % ia a same situation as with Juggie... to many indie power traders Flying Around some of them not even respecting docking restrictions. I think GMG is a better Choice.. they Are Really Capable and because Whale is based on Kusari whale anyway that have bigger sense to me
Quote:~Quit adding in Zoner stations.
We already have more than any other single faction and we can barely manage those. Some are rarely even mentioned. Hell, most Zoner players don't even know about the two in Omega-50.
Again Agreement.. I a Shame but FP2 for exaple is Looking so Empty so many times... no Zoner presence no RP at all...( Just Put Bomber There)
Quote:The following post will have info cards, rumors, and such to support my statements. Yes, what I want to do is extreme but right now Zoner RP is..........fracked up beyond belief. Do the other Zoner leaders agree with me? Can't be 100% sure. I know on the ZA forum there are talks about all of the above.
If what I am suggesting can't be done or is too much, then Zoner RP needs to be adjusted to fit what it should be. A mini house similar to the CR.
Note: No posts QQ that I am trying to nerf Zoners. I tire of that attitude. I am merely trying to fix what is broken. The Rogues gave things up to fix what was broken with them, I am asking Zoners to think about doing the same.
To be completely honest, I think the Zoners need at least the Fearless. At least from one standpoint.
On one hand, we have the whole "wraship keel awl!" attitude that is sort of detrimental to the Zoner way of doing things.
On the other hand, with a weekly lynching of Freeport 11 and the surrounding space by Keepers with all manner of intimidating craft, I think we'd be veritably screwed without at least something capable of defending from the possibility of a large-ish Nomad sunbathing outside FP11.
Quite the conundrum.
The only way I can see keeping it for the purposes of the not-death-by-Nomad aspect would be to limit the ship to only be able to fly in the Omicrons, but that would make it practically pointless anyway. So um... I guess I support killing it? Worst case scenario we break out the Roc spam, I guess...
Thing Wrote:6 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
6 Members: Magoo!, Ortog, Aes_Sidhe, BULLDOGNK's Adjudicator, Luis, Ynk
Quote:~Make the Jinkusu SRP only.
Why? It is such a large ship that it would be incredibly difficult to produce and once built it would only be commanded by a Zoner who is trusted by the rest of the Zoner community. Meaning a player who has a very firm grasp of Zoner role play.
No? Nobody knows how many juggernauts there are. We could have more battleships than Gallia.
Quote:Zoner who is trusted by the rest of the Zoner community
The Zoner factions are very weak, I doubt they could even discipline a "misguided" lolwut juggy.
They have very little power, I dont know why you'd make a topic adressed to them. In fact, the players of the Zoners have more power than the factions... lol.
Quote:~Remove the Aquilon or give it to another faction.
Why? Zoners don't condone violence. They try to make peace with all and not antagonize anyone. A war ship antagonizes others.
Its for defense...
Quote:~ Zoner Border World Transport, Whale
Open this vessel up to either the IMG or GMG and change the role play of it. Make it a join project between the GMG or IMG. Vanilla Zoners weren't big enough to warrant their own 5k transport. The GMG doesn't have it and in role play it is by far the larger of the two factions.
Its simple, really. We grew. Its been nearly TWENTY years since Vanilla.
I would see the future of planet Gran Canaria similar to the fate of Erie.
Who are the people living on it? Mostly they are refugees from Bretonia. There are more and more of them. In the end they will claim the Planet and system as Bretonia territory. Because of the war and losses in Leeds, Queen may use the occasion and adopts the system to her property. For Zoners Lazarotte would be enough.
There is also Omega 50 and two big Zoners stations. One station in system is enough for Zoners.
' Wrote:~Remove the Fearless
Why? Same reason as the Aquilon and trust me, it pains me to say this because I love the Fearless.
I understand this one is questionable. There are very good and very thought out reasoning for Zoner retaining the Fearless. I'd suggest its history be modified to be similar to how I think the ZBT would be created. By joint ventures with one of our friends.
As for the need for war ships to fight Gallia. Zoners are very similar to the IMG. We would not stand a chance in a knock down drag out war with Gallia. We wouldn't fight them on the front lines if forced into a war. We'd do something very similar to what the IMG did, then fund/supply those that are fighting them behind the scenes. Thus there is no need for war ships other than fighters, bombers, and gunboats to defend what they don't take from us outright.
I don't support any idea that would restrict the usage of any Zoner vessel by Zoners without approval of the Zoner Alliance. The Alliance is simply a device. If you are a Zoner you have open usage of Zoner stuff. If you can't partake of Zoner RP correctly, I'll simply use FR5. There is vanilla information that Zoner leaders asked or forced Zoners who couldn't abide by Zoner way of life to leave the community. It states those that were asked to leave usually became Bounty Hunters, heh.
Zoner Jinkusu has a special lore for it's background. However, many players consider them to be a war ship (which it is), others consider them to be a "Civilization Ship" (me) and others plays its role very well (me again and few that i know).
Jinkusu is mainly a vessel that is hidden in the dark or deep inside nebulas with enough supplies to last for decades. Nevertheless, it is called upon when danger is in reached; i.e.: Nomads. Other than that, it is maintained to be a legendary vessel that lays upon the nebulas that no other vessels cannot get in contact with.
Same as the Persephone (Leviathan) - Commnaded by Elizabeth "Jinx" Tate. However this one stays on cloak near the Freeport 11 incase of any attack - it can assualt them for a bit of time till more reinforcements arrives.
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Aquilon is another fine ship, yet it can be seen in the Omicrons, Taus, Omegas, and Sigmas - Very Rare on house space like Pennsylvania or Kepler - but again, very rare. Their role is to pick up supplies and crew for the Jinkusu's that are in need for resources. They are use to bring fighters for battle as well and aare very agile in manuevering. Yet, the Jinkusu sits in one place and fires since it has a power hull than the Aquilon.
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Fearless is there as a support cruiser/destroyer for the larger ships. Their role is to engage smaller vessels, mainly - Gunships/ Cruisers, yet weak against fighters. However - their use has a purpose for Zoners. They play as escorts capitol vessels.
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Zoner research vessel (Jinx's new Model) is mainly used to research deep space for nebulas, Jumpholes and new systems, and recon the system and patrol. Yet, this has a use like the Fearless.
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Zoner Conference gunship is a wonderful gunboat that I have flown in Disco - yet it is huge, thats the downside. Having 6 turrets, the gunships is capable of attacking bombers/fighters/ Gunships (with right armarment). Yet, it can be played as another (light) escort ship for capitols and convoys. It is highly seen on House space and everywhere.
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Zoner "Whale" is mainly used to transport ore and goods from Freeport to Freeport and ship goods to it's allies as well. This is the only thing I agree on you. GMG or IMG can have a meeting since they are both 'friends' i suppose.
But, its main use is for transporting goods from Freeport to Freeport.
These are my opinions about these ships. They are all given a great role, but it is how the player wants it to play. Some of them even plays it as a Freeport (Jinkusu), others buy the ship from the Zoners and use it on another faction. Players have the right to choose what role they want - if they are doing it right, meaning right ID's and IFF.
I encounter an another post about Zoner Oddity and this Change a little my point of view especially on capital Ships.
Jinkusu SRP Only I agree with that.... They Are Colony Ships and Mobile Freeports so They Should be Use for That not as ZONER BATTLESHIP ARMADA
Aquilion and Fearless Removed I Agree with that as well... As a fraction with few freeports and 2 Planets (when Eire is practically part of Liberty) I don't Really see Us Witch bunch of Capital Ships Flying around especially our construction... We of course could use our trade skills... and be able to eventually buy few capital Ships from another fractions doing it with Right RP on forum and on server as well
And as defensive forces... I was witness small battle between order and BGH few days ago where 3 BHG bombers and 1 destroyer was whooping several Order capital Ships buts. With VHF and Bombers and Gunship Support we should be able to protect our interest (nobody escort OSI convoys with destroyers and carriers for example) and freeports NFZ
Corvo Should Stay as Exploration Vessel just because He fits to Zoner Exploratory Spirit
As a Gran Canaria Issue... That really something what shouldn't happen .... but with all RP involved with so many people just removed it from the system don't look right...
I like a Maggot Idea.... Loosing a Gran Canaria to Bretonian Empire... will force us to look for a new place... new planet what we can call our own... and give us a reason to new RP ....For example mass leaving this planet by Zoner... trying find they place in Sirius again
Just another 2 cents after read few more opinions in the forum.
Kuthumii Wrote:I want to know if the Zoner leaders are in agreement and can provide solid reasoning as to why some Zoner things should be removed, modified, or retcon'd if they will be.
Yes. For someone representing a group of official player factions, it's perfectly possible to participate in your NPC faction's development if you approach the subject appropriately. Talk to Igiss, talk to the dev team members in charge of Zoner development, and as long as your changes make sense and do not disrupt Igiss's "grand plan", you stand a fairly good chance at getting things done.
Also, I completely agree with all of the points you've mentioned in your post.
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