' Wrote:No. Think a bit. The bombers haves too much regen capability. They should be lowered. A bomber now can cut through a gunboat at ease, and that is not right. The bomber now, how it is, it's just very overpowered. Unlimited ammo, ridiculous regen capacity, and before it had 3 lives (that meant that the bomber would come back always with full b/b). If this is balanced for you... or maybe you like bomber spamming.
Bombers never had 3 lives. The rule stated 'fighters' only. Everybody misinterpreted that rule...
Also, if the novas are made back into projectile weapons, bombers will have a limited supply of novas, and they will have to target the weak spots of a battleship, making bomber attacks more difficult.
If you don't like the novas as torps, there is a mini razor around that can take the place of the nova energy gun...
(If you find any mistake in my English, please let me know via a PM)
(Really, I speak terrible English, so please, tell me if I make mistakes. I'd like to improve it a bit )
Bombers SHOULD be able to kill capital ships. That is their whole purpose. Killing fighters in a bomber is harder than killing capships. That is why they are in the damn mod.
Everyone, stop whining when you die. It's getting old. You remove the bomber's ability to beat capships and it becomes a slow fighter. That would be the best way to completely destroy that whole class of ship.
If you can't fly a bomber, tough. You should try and learn. Might be a good idea for all you whining capship whores to try something different.
Bombers were VERY effective with the torpedo like novas. The problem was that very few were able to fly them decently. Most people flew them as if they were fighters or gunboats.
I remember having taken down two battleships and a cruiser with my bomber (that was when the bomber was introduced), only to be stopped from taking down a 4th when I ran out of novas. Although, the enemy pilots sucked badly...
Still, a single bomber should not be able to take on a BS. Maybe a cruiser. Maybe being if the bomber pilot is really good.
Having a single bomber killing a BS completely kills the purpose of having a BS in the first place.
(If you find any mistake in my English, please let me know via a PM)
(Really, I speak terrible English, so please, tell me if I make mistakes. I'd like to improve it a bit )
Right now, a cruiser isn't that great, it cant beat a gunboat on its own (unless the cruiser pilot is experienced and the gunboat pilot doesn't know how to fly). The cruiser has adequate protection against bombers and fighters, but it isn't meant for that role, so its weakness should be bombers. Battleships on the other hand should be unkillable by a single bomber. It should require three mediocre pilots to kill a battleship, which would mean that the potency of the cruiser cannons such as the Inferno and battle razor need to be increased so they can damage a battleship before dieing.
Cruisers should have the capability to kill smaller caps and damage larger ones at the expense of fighter and bomber protection. Battleships should be much the same, but have a much better fighter and bomber protection. Gunboats should just have fighter and bomber protection.
Thats the way i see it, because if the enemy tries to swarm a battleship with cruisers, then the defenders can swarm bombers. In return, the attackers can swarm gunboats and fighters, then the defenders can swarm cruisers to get rid of the gunboats.
The way i see it, the above system leaves vulnerabilities for every class, so no one person can be invulnerable if they sit in a battleship all day.
The problem is not that a bomber is too powerful, but that the cruiser and battleship are too weak.
cough..addendum:
Battlecruisers might be converted into battleship killers, with two Liberty cruiser forward guns and very little normal turrets, say, 3. This would mean, any person sitting in a battleship could easily be taken down by an Albatross or Liberty battlecruiser, but they would be extremely vulnerable to gunboats and bombers.
2 Forward guns on any ship is definitely overkill. Plus, the Battlecruisers just wouldn't fit like that.
About the bombers. People this is why you have gunboats and fighters. Your mad about a bomber taking out a single BS, well you shouldn't be flying a BS solo anyway. This has been known for centuries. In the real world a single BS is weak to submarines and airplanes, because the destroyers and gunships are meant to take down the submarines and airplanes.
Okay, so the RH Bomber has 125 bb/sb. Now, have a fighter go after one. The bomber attempts to line up for a shot on a capship, the fighter is right behind him. The fighter can eat off 1/2-3/4s of the bomber's hull in that first pass alone. The bomber can take about 4 bars off a GB in one pass. The bomber will run out of bots VERY fast against a fighter. Tip here; USE FIGHTERS.
You guys think the BS and cruiser should be able to waltz around anywhere and not have to fear anything but other battleships and cruisers. Then when you find a bomber or two beating the crap out of your cruiser, off to the forums you go. This mod isn't meant to make one class of ship the best of the best. Its here to BALANCE them all. The bomber fulfills this by being able to take capships down, but not costing prohibitive fees that are generally unavailable to most pirate bands.The big factions like SA, SF, UOG, etc have missed the purpose of fighters in this game, and because of that, you guys keep losing to the factions that DO use fighters and bombers. Your expecting to simply overpower your enemy. That doesn't work, and its been proving many times in the passed. Group of 10 capships can die to a group of 3 bombers. A group of 5 caps and 5 fighters WON'T die to a group of 3 bombers.
' Wrote:2 Forward guns on any ship is definitely overkill. Plus, the Battlecruisers just wouldn't fit like that.
About the bombers. People this is why you have gunboats and fighters. Your mad about a bomber taking out a single BS, well you shouldn't be flying a BS solo anyway. This has been known for centuries. In the real world a single BS is weak to submarines and airplanes, because the destroyers and gunships are meant to take down the submarines and airplanes.
Okay, so the RH Bomber has 125 bb/sb. Now, have a fighter go after one. The bomber attempts to line up for a shot on a capship, the fighter is right behind him. The fighter can eat off 1/2-3/4s of the bomber's hull in that first pass alone. The bomber can take about 4 bars off a GB in one pass. The bomber will run out of bots VERY fast against a fighter. Tip here; USE FIGHTERS.
You guys think the BS and cruiser should be able to waltz around anywhere and not have to fear anything but other battleships and cruisers. Then when you find a bomber or two beating the crap out of your cruiser, off to the forums you go. This mod isn't meant to make one class of ship the best of the best. Its here to BALANCE them all. The bomber fulfills this by being able to take capships down, but not costing prohibitive fees that are generally unavailable to most pirate bands.The big factions like SA, SF, UOG, etc have missed the purpose of fighters in this game, and because of that, you guys keep losing to the factions that DO use fighters and bombers. Your expecting to simply overpower your enemy. That doesn't work, and its been proving many times in the passed. Group of 10 capships can die to a group of 3 bombers. A group of 5 caps and 5 fighters WON'T die to a group of 3 bombers.
I will get a bomber, armor, then i will stand still and wait for you to take out my shield and 3/4 from the armor in one go. I guarantee that you can't. Now, think that I will be moving. You're just speculating here. A fighter dies FASTER than a bomber. I just say that the RH bomber haves too much regen. Fix that and it'll be ok. Taiidan Bomber is ok, regen (b/b) of the RH Bomber is a little bit too high.
' Wrote:I will get a bomber, armor, then i will stand still and wait for you to take out my shield and 3/4 from the armor in one go. I guarantee that you can't. Now, think that I will be moving. You're just speculating here. A fighter dies FASTER than a bomber. I just say that the RH bomber haves too much regen. Fix that and it'll be ok. Taiidan Bomber is ok, regen (b/b) of the RH Bomber is a little bit too high.
*Laughs* Hylden, I can easily do that with my fighter even IF your dodging. The bomber is a rock, and with accuracy a fighter can slaughter one.
' Wrote:*Laughs* Hylden, I can easily do that with my fighter even IF your dodging. The bomber is a rock, and with accuracy a fighter can slaughter one.
Don't be so sure. You never saw me fighting in a bomber. You can laugh, that changes anything. You'd probably die... I'd like to see how arrogant will you be after I will prove you otherwise than you now think.
I find it a bit funny that people only talk about the Bismark to refer to a BS needs power. You do know there was another Battleship BIGGER than the Bismark? Do you know that this ship died because it had NO fighter cover? If you ask how good was this ship: it could run at 27 knots and shoot 18.1in guns at a range of about 12k. And it died to fighters.
Read carefuly the part that talks about operation Ten-Go.
Been here since Discovery 4.77 (lurk mode engaged)
Zapp Wrote:I have recently met and discussed with Atalawohisdi the trader that flies the Caribe. Just so everyone knows, I engaged in Sigma 13. He flies through half the system before going back to New Berlin, where he cruises from one side of the system to the other, hugging the sun as close as he can. All the while, he flies near Battleships trying to scrape me off. I finally send out the white flag, and move back to Sigma 13. However, it was a ruse, and he bit. Knowing his trade route, I interdicted the trade lane and the chase began anew. It ended, an hour after it began, with me retreating, out of Countermeasures and getting very irritated.
He kept boasting how he has never been caught; I'd like to see him beat until he begs to pay, then beaten some more.
Maybe a battlecruiser wouldn't fit like that, but it is the only way, in my reckoning, to have a battleship killer and hence give the battleship a weakness. If the current upgrade goes ahead, a group of bombers will have a much tougher time taking on a battleship, which is why we need a battlecruiser designed like that.
This isn't real life, and it is certainly concievable that there will be that kind of ship in the space world. Battleship killers should be in this mod, but should be weak to just about everything else...
Also, if they get big ships, then its their loss as far as i'm concerned. And on your topic of balance, if the battlecruiser setup im proposing doesnt go ahead, then no one ship will be able to take on the battleship. Most of the time, there are only one or two players defending a given area as their faction, so they need something if battleships are going swarm them. (like i hear people complaining about.)
If theres a battlecruiser like that, then the battleship spam will be greatly diminished in its potency. Which is how it should be.
Also, Dab, I for one don't go in a straight line for more than maybe two seconds at the most, and if im doing runs on the target in the traditional sense, i launch my novas as I turn, therefore alleviating the aiming bonus that fighters are supposed to get, in your hypothesis.
However, enough fighters can make it a very very hard time for bombers. Three on one is constant fire, and hits on a bomber. 5 will take down any bomber fast, therefore 5 is all you need, even against 10 bombers. Admittedly though, the art of killing a bomber lies in being patient rather than being particularly adept at dogfighting. And, 5 is a big number...
Edit: went afk halfway through writing the post, so i missed about five posts...
But I agree, battleships couldn't defend against flies as they were simply too small. Therefore, bombers should be able to do the same. The above is applicable (in my opinion of course) if the battleship upgrade happens.
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