' Wrote:I find it a bit funny that people only talk about the Bismark to refer to a BS needs power. You do know there was another Battleship BIGGER than the Bismark? Do you know that this ship died because it had NO fighter cover? If you ask how good was this ship: it could run at 27 knots and shoot 18.1in guns at a range of about 12k. And it died to fighters.
Read carefuly the part that talks about operation Ten-Go.
The "Yamato" is a boat, aka it floats on water. The planes are flying. That means that the planes can go 3D, the Yamato couldn't. The 3rd dimension for Yamato was achieved when it was sunk, in 1945. So, that's a wrong comparison. Compare a boat with another boat. Like a battleship with a Torpedo boat destroyer. A destroyer haves it's chance to kill the BS, but usually the bs destroys a Destroyer, with one or two volleys from the main guns. Take that into consideration.
EDIT: I agree with bluntpencil on this one. And I saw a bs torn apart by a bc (my bs). I just want 2 things to make it clear: 1. Novas to use ammo; 2. RH Bomber to have lesser b/b (80).
Sonja, thats my point. Either the bomber goes straight and hits for a ton of damage, while eating guns from fighters, or they dodge a ton and do only about half the damage, and only lose a bit of hull. Either way, the fighters do their jobs.
@Hylden; It doesn't matter if the Yamato couldn't go 3D while the planes could. The planes in that period were slow and not as agile as the fighters in Freelancer are compared to the battle ships. The BS might be able to go up and down, but its slow and takes a full minute to do a 180. Battleships should be weak to small fighters. Heck, this is what we had drilled into us throughout the entire SP campaign. A group of small agile craft can, with time, defeat a much larger force of larger ships.
The RH Bomber is about as half as agile as the Taiiden and because of this, it needs more bots/batts. I've had no trouble keeping bombers off my team's capships in engagements. They either die fast or they take so much time keeping me from killing them, that they inflict half or less the damage they otherwise would.
If strafe was omitted from bomber spec, and then both bombers strengthened (yes, you heard me) then it -may- become balanced. It is very easy to hit a target that doesn't strafe, and so, kill the offending bomber.
However, that may make it underpowered. I dont know about the effects it would have on bomber fighting though. It may make the class all together too useless because, suddenly, the caps can take down the bombers with ease, especially gunboats.
I agree, it is still to easy to take them down with bombers. However, thats because fighter pilots do not have patience. If they had patience, then bombers would die in a fight 1v1. I can almost guarantee it.
However, a battlecruiser cannot take down a battleship unless the former is working at long range. If that happens, and the bs has to close the distance, then maybe the battlecruiser has a chance of winning. As it stands though, a battlecruiser shouldn't win against a battleship. I have seen battlecruisers damage battleships, but never the BC destroying the BS unless the BC had support.
Again somone posts before me.
Dab, I have heard that you are one of the best fighter pilots on the server. You can hold off whoever you wish to, and the bomber pilots you face are most likely of substandard quality compared with your flying skills. However, I think my point was that i can fire my novas as i come round. Admittedly, it does less damage to shields because i can't use my coladas as much. However, this in return for my life is a decent trade off. Also, it should be possible for medium fighter pilots to effectively cover against good bomber pilots.
You shouldn't need to be the best on the server to be able to fend off bombers from your capital ship group...
Ok, so Hylden... Bombers can kill all capships. They can also kill fighters. Fighters can't kill bombers or capships.
Now, someone want to remind me why we have fighters anymore?
How about I tell you. Straight and simple. Hylden is wrong. Any decent fighter can take a bomber very easily. Especially if the bomber is anti-capship loaded (4/5 shield killers and 2 novas). There is a very simple piece of info that proves this. Unfortunately, I am an avid bomber pilot and I am not prepared to tell you how to kill me, so figure it out for yourself.
And as far as gunboats go, stop mounting the countless missile turrets. The most you need is one to be effective. Turrets will do more damage IF you have any sense of aim. Also, due to the speed of the novas, LISTEN for them firing and thrust out of the way. Ask any bomber that's come up against my gunboat. They very rarely hit unless they know EXACTLY what I am doing.
Seriously, and this is my main point:
LEARN TO FLY WITH THE EQUIPMENT YOU'RE GIVEN!! DON'T KEEP TRYING TO CHANGE IT!!
I would have to agree with Axe on the missile spam though. I have two on my nice shiny Corsair gunboat, which drains a bit, but it compensates for my aim on a bomber when the shield is down.
Also, what he stated is why I can kill bombers in my gunboat. Because I anticipate what my enemy is doing and try to adapt. When you hear a nova noise, thrust. Albeit, the distance that fighters and bombers get between each other alleviates this, but just stay at an angle and thrust when they fire at you.
The aiming reticule is so far acrosss the screen that the bomber will most likely miss, but you can always thrust when at an angle, and alleviate this all together. Sometimes, the reticule appears on the centre of the target as a bug because the reticule is off the screen by about a mile. If you can keep that up on your bomber enemy, then its only a matter of time before the bomber perishes.
I havent tested out this theory, but i'm pretty sure it works, seeing as whenever i try, it works for a period of time, then I charge the bomber and get nova'd.
anyone who says that bomber is easy target against fighter is wrong..bomber sure can protect themselves against fighters...RH bomber maybe isn't that fast but it has enough hull, batts, botts and fire power to live against a fighter long enough to kill it. Taiidan bomber...faster, lower batts and botts, lower fire power...but still faster...agility compensates for lack of guns...in fight against bomber is important to be patient and very careful...one wrong move and u will die...
I have fought against both...and i flew both..(i still fly Taiidan)...lately we (BSG) were trying our bombers in antifighter fights...I, alone can kill two vipers piloted by BSGs best pilots...and funny thing is that i kill them using novas..not guns...
my opinion is that bombers hull strength, power plant, batts and botts No. are fine...but still they move a bit to fast...
power of novas...hmm...i support korrd's wish to make them use ammo again...once that shields are down, bomber can kill armored GB in two, three shots tops (using both novas)...unarmored GB dies in 3 shots by single nova...cruisers are even easier, GB at least can avoid novas...cruisers cant...they will take more hits..but they will also get them in larger percentage...
right now..with novas not using ammo...one well piloted bomber with good support from fighters can kill entire fleet of capital ships simply cause it has unlimited supply of Novas...and nova is bloody torpedo...if it is torpedo then it should be using ammo...
I'll be getting my dual Infernos if that ever happens then...
Bombers find it easy to hit fighters, because of the reticule on the ship. However, I disagree with the statement about Gunboats. It is true, that a gunboat loses bars and bars of health from a dual Nova hit. However, you shouldn't let yourself go in a straight line if you hear the nova sound.
I am not the best bomber pilot, so I know missile spam (skillful missile spam, not sitting still and launching missiles) will strip my guns. Its just a question of do my guns fall off before I kill the target, you know?
The bomber does have a lot of power behind it, no doubt there. As Doom said, patience is the key to taking out bombers. If your impatient, and try to rush a bomber from head on, you will get shot. Also, I will take pot shots at you if your deciding you don't need to thrust when you get near me.
The thing that gets me at the moment is sometimes my hand jerks when i fire novas, resulting in a miss. Purely my error, but it gets annoying...
Do you know where the Battlecruiser word comes from?
Battleship Cruiser. It was always abbreviated as battlecruiser, so the term prevailed.
It was something like a light battleship. Or a cruiser on steroids.
Something with the firepower near of that of a battleship, and a speed near of that of a cruiser. An attempt to get the best of both worlds.
Frigates are supposed to be something between a corvette and a cruiser if im right. Although that depends, as some use it as something near of a BS and some as something near of a Cruiser.
The bomber has 145 BB. It has too much regen capabilities. And taking a bomber like Dab says is very difficult. I had a lot of trouble trying to get Zehn bomber during our last fight, because he strafed like crazy so only 30% of my shots hit him. Lowering the bomber BB capacity to 100-125 should do.
(If you find any mistake in my English, please let me know via a PM)
(Really, I speak terrible English, so please, tell me if I make mistakes. I'd like to improve it a bit )
I will admit that that is what a battle cruiser is, but without a battleship killer, someone can just sit wherever in a battleship, and shoot everything he sees. If the battlecruiser was redesigned like I said, I would hope that it would alleviate this, making everything weak to something else. This would hopefully prevent the high usage of capital ships, as they can always be countered one on one. This means that you dont need to outnumber one to kill one, just that you need support against other types of craft (all other types in the case of the battle cruiser i am proposing).
Also, a could a pocket battleship be designated a battlecruiser? Because that was an effort to stuff as much firepower on to a boat as possible, while sacrificing armour. Kind of like what I am proposing.
I am not trying to be stubborn, but i just don't see that balance can be achieved any other way. If there is another workable solution to getting around the high usage of a particular type of capital ship, then I would like to know and endorse the proposal fully.
Also, Zehn flies a Taiidan bomber, which has 80 bots and 80 bats. Taking that figure down to 50 each would be less than a VHF. In my opinion, the figure should stay as it is. My comment about the capital ship balance depends on it, but if it is changed, then I will have to do some more experimenting before I come up with another hypothesis. If it is lowered, it should in my opinion still have the same as a highly rated VHF.
I thought Frigates were the smallest class of ship in the navies today. Above an attack boat, but a long range scout rather than a fighting vessel. Attack boats are just dingy's with torpedoes. I am not even sure if corvettes exist anymore, but the field is not one of my stronger ones.
The arguments that I am using have sense to me, but I am not sure. Please bear in mind that this is my personal opinion.
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