As a citizen of the USA, perhaps "average", perhaps otherwise, I have mixed feelings on the matter. The previous arguments that all religions have "extremist" followers is important to note, and I feel it to be on the mark. It is also important to recognize the previous comments that this is being debated in an open forum, rather than being opposed forcefully under a flag of perceived righteousness, is no small victory. The USA has no corner on the market of tragedy, as members of this forum from all countries have suffered the same or worse. However, I would argue that most of the countries of the world have suffered or perpetuated prejudice, or worse at some point in their history.
I am not naive enough to assume that an extremist view from a priest, rabbi, imam, or otherwise does not hold the power to sway the impressionable to an extremist view. Regardless, the practice of religion should not be prohibited in any form. That said, I would argue that this project is misguided, even with the best of intentions. Whether on or near the WTC site, whether or not the building plans are aesthetically pleasing, http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2010/05/..._wtc_mosque.jpg or how many people can enjoy sports or cultural events at this location, http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/0...oves_ahead.html what it seems to me is that the argument is missing the point.
An Islamic cultural center at this location is promoted as intending to foster relations between the west and Muslims. At it's most basic it's a "we're not all bad" argument. I would see a multicultural and interfaith center at this location as a better method, and more in line with the ideal of the USA being a melting pot of many cultures and faiths. You can separate the church from the state, but you'll be hard-pressed to separate the person from the faith, so I would agree that we should be more open minded. I would argue that we should be more sensitive to all diversity regardless of how long the roots may be in a particular country. All that said, with the vast diversity of cultural origins of the forum members, I think this is a great place to discuss this topic. Thank you for the opportunity.
' Wrote:Do you call yourself a true christian? Where's the love, man?
Ya. And If you're referring to me, well, i love everyone. *insert skype sun here*:P
Quote:Who is "they"? Radicals in all religions do that, its not only reserved to islam. Most muslims dont. And most muslims who live in New York because they fled repressive radical regimes dont.
Agreed, for the most part. But as far as i know.. only modern day Muslim terrorists kill people they don't like. So when you find christians killing each other, you tell me and I'll agree with you fully. But hey don't get me wrong, the catholics are extremely loony in the head as well. :crazy:
P.S. When i say "terrorists" I'm not just refering to the common suicide bomber in the middle east. Cause most muslims in third world countries (such as the Philippines), will definitely kill each other out in the open over some small dispute. And i'm not talking about the guys that run in guns blazing, i'm talkin' about the actual political parties. :/
' Wrote:I fixed that a bit for you, because if you say it one way, you almost definitely have to be able to say it the other way, right?
Certainly.
Rapur
09-03-2010, 11:17 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-03-2010, 02:11 PM by kingvaillant.)
I tried to restrain myself from posting here but I can't.
' Wrote:Well, it depends on the person. If the muslim worker was truly muslim, they wouldn't. But if they were a radical or one of those terrorist-followers then ya i suppose they would build it.
So, a true muslim would not want to go to a Mosque, only Terrorists? Makes sense /sarcasm off.
There's a lot of people who would build a Mosque for the right money.
' Wrote:It's just.. that now 'a days, they only use the bad things from the koran and practically make their own rule book.
Yeah yeah I know, it's a handy little booklet called "how to kill Americans in 5 minutes á la Muslim"
' Wrote:But as far as i know.. only modern day Muslim terrorists kill people they don't like. So when you find christians killing each other, you tell me and I'll agree with you fully.
"modern day Muslim terrorists kill people they don't like", Yeah and so does the USA too (just a random example). And there are christian terrorist ogranisations these days like in the Basque country or in North Ireland.
' Wrote:P.S. When i say "terrorists" I'm not just refering to the common suicide bomber in the middle east. Cause most muslims in third world countries (such as the Philippines), will definitely kill each other out in the open over some small dispute.
In the Philippines the majority(about 90%) of the people are Christians.
Problem is you can't picture arabs/muslims being normal, who go to school/work, love their families, like to play video games like freelancer ect
In your head every arab/muslim men has a beard and a turban like Bin laden, and they are running around with AK-47s shooting everything that moves and shouting insults And -every- woman is wearing a burka and their husband beats them every single day.
This hatred of Muslims because of 9/11 is hypocritical. You Yanks are scared of Muslims burning your cities or whatever, but Muslims once had the same fears about Christians, specifically the Templars, who quite a few of you might be descended from. Also, the US was intended as a secular state, not a Christian one.
Also, to put to use one of the few times I paid attention in Religious Studies, most Muslim leaders have condemned extremism. Their rules on what constitutes a real Jihad are:
The most important Jihad is a Muslim making themselves a better peorson through the teachings of Islam,
Making a better Muslim community does not mean forcing people to convert.
And if violence is the only remaining option,, then no civilians are allowed to be harmed.
There may be more, but I can't remember them right now.
£0.02
If I may observe a little: Ignorance is enemy, but you can hardly fight it, when everything you see on television, hear on the radio, read in the newspaper is cooked to make you believe in the one and only truth, that your country is infallible, and that you're the good guys.
And I'm not referring to the USA here. Serbia had the same deal some 10 years ago. Some of it is still happening.
People are much easier to get screwed when they aren't looking at you.
Point you in the direction of someone, and say "He's evil, he (insert aggressive verb and loved noun here)". People get keyed up and hate him, and think how he's bad, and evil, and how they need to stop him. In the mean time, you don't talk about what you really are doing. And nobody knows, because, while your house is on fire, you're busy looking at the thunderstorm on the horisont, thinking how it MIGHT EVENTUALLY come to your house and break a window or two.
Now, I know this all may just sound like a conspiracy theory, but that's the way the governments work. All over the world. You see, you need to convince the people to support what you want to do, otherwise, they won't do it. So, you manipulate people. You fabricate events, you lie, you misdirect their attention...
I don't know what to tell you guys, how to help. Even the Internet news are contaminated, you never know who is right.
Did the people land on the Moon or not? Both sides can be just as persuasive.
So, learn all you can, and get your own conclusion.
Good Luck everyone! We're gonna need it.
Old Orvell just missed for about 20-25 years, you know... it's not that much.
There is no Al-Qaeda...not in a sense most people think...it's a game lead by intelligence services...bloody game-yes but nothing more...same old game that's been playing in theater-Earth for centuries...there are only fiction TV-story's for fools and the rest of brain-washed consumers...
...there are,however evil people leading uneducated nations from one war to the next so ordinary people couldn't notice the fact they are slaves in so-called free world & democracy...
cause if one works all day long 6 days per week all his life just to be able to pay his
debt and survive-he's a slave as much as guy 2000 years ago...