People are missing the point all over the place. It's been said many times in this forum (though you'll hardly hear it in the media) yes...part of it is a mosque, but it's entire reason for being built is more one of a cultural centre where anyone of any faith can enter and...heaven forbid...actually learn something about one another rather than hating each other based on nothing more than ignorance.
To me that is a very important point because watching all the hoopla in the media made me realize that the 'idea' itself is a beautiful one, learning about one another, that people are up in arms about simply because it was conceived of by Muslims themselves.
If Beck, or Palin, or any other (I'm sorry to say it...) WHITE person stood up and said "Let's build a cultural centre near Ground Zero where members of every faith, Muslim, Christian...whoever, can come together in peace and learn about each other." Every American would be on board because it stands word for word for what everyone claimed after 9/11 happened...that being...show the extremists that their actions would not change the freedom that America represents. There would be no better way to defeat the extremists ideals than by creating something that tolerant from the ashes of a tragedy.
Unfortunately, Beck or Palin didn't think of it. The Muslims did. And hence the reaction we're seeing in the media.
' Wrote:Problem, sir? I can't help but wonder what you mean with that. There's a mosque in my town, one in those next to mine as well, in cities, everywhere where you'd find a church ; there's a mosque here. And we don't mind. You know, open minded, actual freedom of speech and all that. Muslims and Christians get along fine here. Hell, we have had muslims damning their own people for that 9/11 stuff you lot just can't seem to let go, and I have only once heard a muslim say that she thought 9/11 was a good idea. She wasn't terribly smart, either.
Perhaps if America was a bit less socially.. Not so very bright, to put it nicely, this wouldn't be an issue. They're people, not just followers of Islam.
I am Dutch to and as such I am proud of the freedom we have here. Since 1579 there was the fundemental law giving us freedom of conscience. It is one of the things I value the most of the Netherlands. It is just simply sad that currentely this freedom is threatened by Geert Wilders. He seems to have many followers and, on topic, he actually goes to the USA to protest against that mosque. His only political goal seems to discriminate and appearentely he thinks it is wise, to peform such a act while he is also discussing about our new government in which he might been taking part. Such people sadden me. What's even worse is when people who vote on persons like Wilders talk with you and they say like "And all those foreigners are coming here and they steal are jobs and blahblah.." and then you ask them, "Did they steal your job?" "No.." "And how many people do you see walking with burka's?" "None..." "And do people from Turkey for instance always bother you?" "Not really..."
Actually, Exile. Regardless of what reasons you choose to vote for Wilders, you're voting against Islam, since I sincerely doubt he's willing to give away that part of his programme if he wins the next election.
Jarl, regarding history, I'd like to point out that most of Europe has been fighting against the muslim-based Turkey and their allies for about 500 years. I don't know of the Dutch involvement in that, but I do know that my country got trashed by the Turkish. And now, we open our borders to them all and welcome them to take us over with open arms. Before anyone responds with the "u ignorant nahzee" line to my last sentence, check their birth and cultural expansion rates.
Not quite sure where Zapp is going with this or why ... but I think he's judging Americans on something he doesn't quite understand.
Nobody has ever said they cannot build a mosque. That's not the issue. The problem is that THIS particular extremist (the guy that wants to build it) wants to put it AT Ground Zero. And yes the Imam that has plans to build the mosque IS an extremist. He's got ties to Al-Queda. Follow the money trail and you might get educated.
People need to wake up or they're gonna find themselves slaves to these extremists.
' Wrote:I think this thread should require a works cited section on every post. I'd like to see where most of you are getting your information.
You seem to be very good and making claims and accusations without evidence. Most liberals have nothing to back up their claims. And when people call em on it they start name calling and slandering.