' Wrote:So, a true muslim would not want to go to a Mosque, only Terrorists? Makes sense /sarcasm off.
There's a lot of people who would build a Mosque for the right money.
If a common New York muslim had any respect for this country, they wouldn't.
Quote:Yeah yeah I know, it's a handy little booklet called "how to kill Americans in 5 minutes á la Muslim"
Uhm. No. They don't kill just Americans. They kill brits, their own kind, asians, basically anyone they want to.
Quote:"modern day Muslim terrorists kill people they don't like", Yeah and so does the USA too (just a random example). And there are christian terrorist ogranisations these days like in the Basque country or in North Ireland.
Never heard of um, but sounds like good research. Link?
Quote:In the Philippines the majority(about 90%) of the people are Christians.
In Manila there's about 15million people, btw.
Quote:Problem is you can't picture arabs/muslims being normal, who go to school/work, love their families, like to play video games like freelancer ect
Uhhhhmmmm... No. I have two friends that are Muslim, and live regular happy lives.
Quote:In your head every arab/muslim men has a beard and a turban like Bin laden, and they are running around with AK-47s shooting everything that moves and shouting insults And -every- woman is wearing a burka and their husband beats them every single day.
Not really... Like... Not at all dude. And not every muslim woman is beat.
P.S. Oh hey you're from Hungary! Are you one of those guys that shoot the women when they try to take a walk in the park?
Agmen_of_Eladesor Wrote:How many Christian Churches are there in Mecca or Medina? (One, but that's Mecca, Indiana - not the one in Saudi Arabia.) Since practicing any other religion besides Islam is illegal in Saudi Arabia - that pretty much says just how tolerant they really are, and shows how duplicitous our liberals really are. Political Correctness can only go so far - at some point you have to take a stand for what is right and say no more.
So what you are saying is that because Muslim extremist governments (such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the Taliban) are oppressing other religions, you think we should do the same? Doesn't that make you an extremist yourself? You are so proud of the freedom in America, but you want to abolish freedom of religion for other people. Now if that isn't 'duplicitous' I don't know what is.
Agmen_of_Eladesor Wrote:Either that or just go open a Third Reich Souvenier Stand in Auschwitz. (I'm not invoking Godwins law here, this is IMHO a valid comparison - especially when you have people like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad saying that the holocaust didn't happen.)
It's not the same. You keep identifying muslims with extremists and terrorists. Might aswell identify all germans with nazis, all irish with the IRA, and all americans with the KKK. Most muslims are more tolerant about other religions than you. Do you even know any muslims personally?
The_Major Wrote:I'd like to oppose your viewpoint, however. I do not wish to be stereotypical, but we have never seen so many undercover acts of terrorism from any other follower of a political idea or a religion. Nazis, the KKK and the Spanish inquisition have all done their horrific actions in the open, which does not apply to the muslim terrorists who prefer to deceive their targets by appearing as a regular person.
Since their tactic is attacking anyone and everyone in a covert manner, never letting their enemy know when they would strike, one always has to be suspicious. Terrorists appear as everyday people, lack distinctive uniforms which the nazis, the KKK and all the other similar groups had.
Thats because all terrorists deceive their targets by appearing as regular people, not because muslims do that. Apart from that, a lot of modern day nazis and KKK members appear as regular people when you see them in public.
The_Major Wrote:Consider me a racist/islamophobe/nazi all you want, but that's my viewpoint and I can totally understand those who don't put their ultimate trust into every single arab person or muslim they meet.
I don't put my ultimate trust in any arab or muslim any more than I put it in any of you guys here. I judge people by what I see, not only on what some people tell me about their ethnicity or religion.
Baltar Wrote:Not quite sure where Zapp is going with this or why ... but I think he's judging Americans on something he doesn't quite understand.
Nobody has ever said they cannot build a mosque. That's not the issue. The problem is that THIS particular extremist (the guy that wants to build it) wants to put it AT Ground Zero. And yes the Imam that has plans to build the mosque IS an extremist. He's got ties to Al-Queda. Follow the money trail and you might get educated.
People need to wake up or they're gonna find themselves slaves to these extremists.
You seem to be very good and making claims and accusations without evidence. Most liberals have nothing to back up their claims. And when people call em on it they start name calling and slandering.
I'd like to see your evidence that shows the guy is an extremist and has ties to Al Queda please.
About name callng and slandering... thats exactly what you are doing about the people who want to build the center and about liberals.
And about yours and Agmen's ranting about 'liberals'...
The USA was founded on liberal ideals, such as freedom of religion. What you say makes you sound like intolerant extremists to me.
Death.Runing.Verminator Wrote:If a common New York muslim had any respect for this country, they wouldn't.
New York muslims are part of this country just like you are. You seem to have no respect for them, or their rights as citizens, or their freedom.
' Wrote:You could have addressed the message to the average European as well, since we too have this problem on our hands.
Agreed. Sadly, in Spain the situation isn't much better. "Ignorance + 3/11 bombings" are the words which define the behavior of many spaniards towards muslims (Especially here in the south). And there's no hope on changing this situation in short term.
I'd like to cite a source. It's the FBI's hate crime statistics.
For 2008, the most recent report I could find, Jews were still the biggest victims of religious-based hate crime at 66.1% of all religious-based hate crimes.
Second place goes to fellows of miscellaneous religions, as in neither Jew, Muslim, Catholic, Protestant or Atheist/Agnostic, with 12.8 percent of all hate crimes in 2008.
Muslims come in third, with 7.5 percent, followed closely by Catholics with 5.1 percent.
Between 2004 and 2008, hate crime percentages remain fairly stable, with fluctuations of around 1 or 2 percent per category. Couldn't get the .pdf file reports to work, but I remember reading statistics from 2001 from the FBI report a few weeks ago that even though anti-Muslim attacks increased from 2000 by 1600%, the overall percentage of anti-Muslim hate crimes were still massively eclipsed by hate crimes against other peoples, specifically the Jews.
Think about the implications. Even though Muslims think they have it bad, even though they're being given the spotlight right now, they still have it off better than the Jews. :mellow:
Anyway, regarding the mosque, it is perfectly within their rights to build it there. But it's not wise to do so. If building a mosque causes an uproar, you shouldn't build it. It's simply unwise.
There was a controversy a while back because a group of Carmelite nuns built a convent near the Auschwitz-I concentration camp. The Church responded to the complaints of prominent Jews by, ultimately, removing the convent, because to this day that site is still a sore spot for many. This is relevant because Ground Zero, to many, is STILL a sore spot, and a much more recent albeit not as severe one.
It's not about can or cannot, because by all means they can. It's about should or should not. If many Americans aren't ready, whether or not it's right or wrong doesn't matter, pushing the issue is stupid and will only cause more issues.
Hell, getting a church built is just as hard in many places. '_'
edit: And American Liberals =/= Actual Liberals. Liberalism is largely vacant from modern America, except in the Libertarian party.
"Things will not calm down, Daniel Jackson. They will, in fact, calm up."
' Wrote:New York muslims are part of this country just like you are. You seem to have no respect for them, or their rights as citizens, or their freedom.
I have respect for every single one of them pal. You have no right saying whether someone has respect for another or not. Especially if you don't even know the person. I treat every muslim here as a citizen, a normal, every day citizen in America trying to get by.
There's no place for religion at the ground zero.
Neither a church, nor any other religious building should be build there.
It's a slap in the face for everyone, who believe in another or no religion and had something to do with those who died there.
Keep religion aways from this place. It's not right to create another reason for conflicts about such things. Respect those, who died there. They weren't all muslims and they weren't all christians - If they want to do something good, build something, which helps people, there.
I can only say one thing: Please don't allow any kind of religious building on this place. No matter of which religion it might be.
' Wrote:There's no place for religion at the ground zero.
Neither a church, nor any other religious building should be build there.
It's a slap in the face for everyone, who believe in another or no religion and had something to do with those who died there.
Keep religion aways from this place. It's not right to create another reason for conflicts about such things. Respect those, who died there. They weren't all muslims and they weren't all christians - If they want to do something good, build something, which helps people, there.
I can only say one thing: Please don't allow any kind of religious building on this place. No matter of which religion it might be.
I must concur. It's within their legal rights, but it's just stupid.
"Things will not calm down, Daniel Jackson. They will, in fact, calm up."
' Wrote:You seem to be very good and making claims and accusations without evidence. Most liberals have nothing to back up their claims. And when people call em on it they start name calling and slandering.
I haven't resorted to slander, nor have I called anyone names. It seems the overall hostility in your two posts is a lot higher than any post I've made in this thread, or the last year on these boards...
As for what you're saying, you've offered nothing to back up or support your claims. That might help any point you wish to make, as to me it's lost in "conspiracy theorist" land at the moment.
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' Wrote:I haven't resorted to slander, nor have I called anyone names.
Actually, you did both, in your second sentence of your very first post :
' Wrote:These aforementioned words are aimed mainly at people too blind to invest any time in educating themselves as to the difference between Muslims and extremists.
You characterized anyone who disagrees with your position as blind and ignorant. In a later paragraph of the post, you indicated that hatred is the primary motivation of anyone who disagrees with your position. This is only a slightly more subtle form of ad hominem attack than the more bluntly phrased : "if you don't agree with me, you're an idiot."
Attributing ignorance, fear, hatred, or other negative motivations as the only possible causes of people disagreeing with you is far from a persuasive debate tactic. In fact, it signals to any decent debater on the opposing side that you haven't got a solid foundation to base your arguments on, because if you did, you'd use it rather than beginning with an attack on people's motives. Acknowledging that reasonable people can disagree about both facts and beliefs while adhering to positive motives and principles is the only basis for rational debate, which, unsurprisingly, this thread has strayed far from.
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