You seem to be a nice group of friendly, helpful people. Had some nice roleplay with one of you the other day as well. But, since you asked, here are excerpts from some ramblings I had the other day...
Don't make promises you can't keep.
It may seem obvious, but time and again I've seen people propose to do things as part of a treaty or such that they simply cannot do, that are impossible. Then others will blame you for failing to uphold your part of a bargain, and things will get worse.
You simply cannot stop people from landing on Freeports. Gameplay mechanics outright prevent it. You can shout and read off "laws" till you're blue in the face, but you can't stop them. Going via the admins (FR5,sanction report etc) simply isn't feasable except in very extreme cases, and just creates a negative atmosphere. Public shaming, angry letters and the like on the forum comm channels are just as detrimental. It just leads to bad feelings and bad blood between everyone.
Another important thing to consider: In canon roleplay, Zoner Freeports are open to everyone. Following the precedent of faction rights over independent characters, you cannot order them to override their canon RP with "faction" RP. I think that trying to ban ships from landing on Freeports is the wrong thing to do, would not work, and would just make things much, much worse.
You cannot control what anyone does after they leave a Freeport. You cannot track where they go or who they choose to attack. You have absolutely no way of enforcing any rules preventing ships from using a Freeport as a base from which to attack someone. What's more, in vanilla canon RP, the bounty hunters guild did exactly that. So did many factions. Trying to stop this is most likely futile. Claiming or accepting responsibility for attempting to somehow prevent these attacks would be completely disasterous.
And another thing. Don't claim to represent the citizens of Freeports and don't claim to represent the Zoner community. And for crying out loud, don't try to create any sort of "Zoner government" or related sillyness such as formal Freeport administrators, governors, mayors, councils, commonwealths or coalitions. That isn't the Zoner way, not least because there is no such thing as a "Zoner way", and you know it. Embrace anarchy. It's delicious.
Forgive me, I've been drinking Kool Aid so my responses might make no sense.
@ Mr Ortog
Please explain how and why you feel OSI is not a Zoner group. I'd also like to know what taxes we are evading. As for Freeport XV, OSI currently doesn't operate nor run this Freeport. It is ran by an employee of the company, however OSI itself holds no position of authority over it. That doesn't mean we aren't interested in the whole of Omicron-74, as is our right as an official Zoner faction.
@ Wood
This is role play. It would be very boring if we never broke our promises. We understand we cannot stop people from landing due to game mechancis. That doesn't mean we can't inform them that they can't due to on going role play, shoot them if they don't listen, etc; in order to further the role play that is on going.
As for your reference to cannon role play. This is not vanilla Freelancer. In cannon role play, Zoners didn't have capital ships, the ZBT, their own fighter line, etc etc etc. I find it rather hypocritical of you to preach to us about this type of thing when the Zoner faction you were part of took part in a great deal of non cannon Zoner role play.
I'm not sure why you feel the need to point out we can't control what anyone does after they leave a Freeport. I'm sure we are all aware of that fact. As for preventing them from using our bases to attack others? We can control that. It is called Faction Right 5 or the liberal use of plasma. As for the rest of that paragraph, again, this isn't vanilla Freelancer and we are well aware of the fact that enforcing a NFZ is extremely difficult. NFZs are role play devices, nothing more.
Again, extremely hypocritical to come from someone that was part of the ZTC and the Omicroners. Two factions who claimed hundreds of times to represent all of the Zoners of the Omicrons, claims that every Zoner in 74 and Theta were Omicroners too. Unlike your two factions, OSI has never claimed to represent the entire Zoner community. As for if we create another Zoner government, that is fully up to OSI, TAZ, CoSF, and any indy Zoners who wish to participate in general Zoner role play. Not for you as an individual to decide.
As for claiming anarch is the Zoner way, I'd advise you to go take a look at that vanilla Zoner lore you so dearly cling too. Particularly how they govern each Freeport. You know, an Elder Council that maintains order, not anarchy.
@ Mr Hone
I do apologize, sir. It would seem our transport captains are on their game. Keep at it though, you make our role more enjoyable.
Quote:This is role play. It would be very boring if we never broke our promises. We understand we cannot stop people from landing due to game mechancis. That doesn't mean we can't inform them that they can't due to on going role play, shoot them if they don't listen, etc; in order to further the role play that is on going.
I completely understand. That was my point, to know your limits so that you don't inadvertently back yourself into a corner.
Quote:As for your reference to cannon role play. This is not vanilla Freelancer. In cannon role play, Zoners didn't have capital ships, the ZBT, their own fighter line, etc etc etc.
No need to to go on the defensive and create a strawman. I didn't mention capital ships or the like. I am of the opinion that Freeports should be open to all as they always have been, and as I believe they always should be. Feel free to disagree.
Quote:As for preventing them from using our bases to attack others? We can control that. It is called Faction Right 5 or the liberal use of plasma.
I stand by my previous comment: "Going via the admins (FR5,sanction report etc) simply isn't feasable except in very extreme cases, and just creates a negative atmosphere. Public shaming, angry letters and the like on the forum comm channels are just as detrimental. It just leads to bad feelings and bad blood between everyone."
Quote:Again, extremely hypocritical to come from someone that was part of the ZTC and the Omicroners. Two factions who claimed hundreds of times to represent all of the Zoners of the Omicrons, claims that every Zoner in 74 and Theta were Omicroners too. Unlike your two factions, OSI has never claimed to represent the entire Zoner community. As for if we create another Zoner government, that is fully up to OSI, TAZ, CoSF, and any indy Zoners who wish to participate in general Zoner role play.
No, not hypocrisy. Wisdom through experience. Mistakes were made. I'd rather not see others make the same mistakes. Don't use those mistakes as justification to make more yourselves.
Quote:As for claiming anarch is the Zoner way, I'd advise you to go take a look at that vanilla Zoner lore you so dearly cling too. Particularly how they govern each Freeport. You know, an Elder Council that maintains order, not anarchy.
You mistook my joke at the end for my point. Dagnabbit, I should have used more smilies. :P My point was this: "There is no such thing as a "Zoner way"". Zoners are extremely diverse in their views and opinions. It follows that any governmental body or treaty is likely to have such a proportion of Zoners who oppose it, as to make it worthless.
Still, you're a really nice and friendly bunch of people and I'm sure I'll continue to have really great encounters with you folks. See you around.
' Wrote:Thanks for the feedback on my feedback!
I completely understand. That was my point, to know your limits so that you don't inadvertently back yourself into a corner.
Again, this is role play. If we always avoided such things said role play would be extremely stale and boring. This is role play, there are no limits other than what you and the person you are role playing with agree to.
' Wrote:No need to to go on the defensive and create a strawman. I didn't mention capital ships or the like. I am of the opinion that Freeports should be open to all as they always have been, and as I believe they always should be. Feel free to disagree.
I didn't go on the defensive, nor did I strawman. I clearly stated fact. Facts you disregarded in order to sling poo at a faction who is more popular than your now dead faction.
' Wrote:I stand by my previous comment: "Going via the admins (FR5,sanction report etc) simply isn't feasable except in very extreme cases, and just creates a negative atmosphere. Public shaming, angry letters and the like on the forum comm channels are just as detrimental. It just leads to bad feelings and bad blood between everyone."
If people can't understand that this is a role play server and our actions are merely in role play, that is their issue. If they aren't mature enough to understand that we used Faction Right 5 on their characters because it was the proper course of action, that is their issue. Again, role play server. This isn't real life.
' Wrote:No, not hypocrisy. Wisdom through experience. Mistakes were made. I'd rather not see others make the same mistakes. Don't use those mistakes as justification to make more yourselves.
I can with confidence say I've more experience than you, and probably 99% of the ex members of the Omicroners when it comes to running a Zoner faction. We don't need your wisdom, the leadership of OSI has been around on this server for longer than most of the members of the Omicroners. We watched as your faction made mistake after mistake. We offered advice multiple times. We don't need your wisdom to learn from your mistakes, we learned from them as your faction made them.
' Wrote:You mistook my joke at the end for my point. Dagnabbit, I should have used more smilies. :P My point was this: "There is no such thing as a "Zoner way"". Zoners are extremely diverse in their views and opinions. It follows that any governmental body or treaty is likely to have such a proportion of Zoners who oppose it, as to make it worthless.
Still, you're a really nice and friendly bunch of people and I'm sure I'll continue to have really great encounters with you folks. See you around.
Again, your preaching to the choir. I've long been one of the most vocal members of the Zoner community when it comes to pointing out there is no single Zoner way. The leadership of the Omicroners were the ones that couldn't accept that fact.
As for a govermental body or treay being worthless because there are others who oppose it? Nonsense. Any Zoner government, council, etc etc is worth while for those who partake in it. I'd wager those who oppose it also find it worth while because they can use its actions to further their own agenda.
You'll have to forgive my demeanor, after years of insults, negative comments, and generally being talked down to by the leadership and membership of your ex faction; it is rather tiresome to have any of you come here and preach to us about how to play a Zoner faction. Especially when you think you need to inform us how not to repeat your mistakes, when; you know we watched you make them and tried to help only to be insulted repeatedly for trying to help.
Nothing personal OSI, I merely disagree how you run a corporation under zoner banner. As far as I am concerned, and by no means I am an authority here, zoners left houses to leave corporations and governments behind.
To be a zoner and run a corporation seems to me like a well devised way of tax evasion. Not a real zoner way of life, suits and zoners dont mix that well in my opinion.
The person that is speaking from Freeport XV has the OSI logo in his comunications, and its still not decided to who FP XV belongs, besides under whose authority he gives permits for Zoner technology?
And wanting to be independent from the houses does not simply mean that you wouldn't set up your own business, it simply means you choose to live outside the laws of the houses and outside their jurisdiction.
' Wrote:Nothing personal OSI, I merely disagree how you run a corporation under zoner banner. As far as I am concerned, and by no means I am an authority here, zoners left houses to leave corporations and governments behind.
To be a zoner and run a corporation seems to me like a well devised way of tax evasion. Not a real zoner way of life, suits and zoners dont mix that well in my opinion.
I'll just say that having the OSI tag by no means automatically gets us out of being pirated. People try it a plenty. We also use dun dun dun.. diplomacy (Ya know.. what Zoners are supposed to do) to get in the good graces of certain pirate groups. One good example can be found here.
You also mentioned how Zoners left the houses to get away from the governments and corporations. That doesn't mean we are 100% opposed to them. That just means the original Zoners wanted to leave and do things their own way. Which is exactly what we are doing. Besides, most Zoners now are second generation and don't hold any real grudges towards the houses.
Quote:The person that is speaking from Freeport XV has the OSI logo in his comunications, and its still not decided to who FP XV belongs, besides under whose authority he gives permits for Zoner technology?
Not like it matters anyways. Anyone can get whatever they want now. But he is part of the OSI HC and we support his decision.