So really I have been looking at it for a while now,
Some thing make no sense at all.
First off the order...
A bunsh of pilots who deserted their old life and started to get involved into defending Sirius from the nomads.
So how can Mega transports (INRP) reach omicron Minor?
So how can the Order build a shipyard?
So how can the Order have so many resources to build 5489674 ossies or even 1 The Isis.
So how can a few maybe 3000 pilots ,mechanics, officers, medics etc. Make a battleship out of nothing?
There is a reason they stole the Osiris, It's because they couldn't build one.
So the Osiris is a prototype vessel.
It does have a cloacking device.
It also got an impressive shape and firepower for it's size,
However the propulsion system is about the same as the Libby dread. (Rev 50ms makes no sense)
So in short Order should fly bombers, fighters.
-------------------------
Now the Bounty hunters Guild
They got tons and tons of money.
They can convince almost everyone with a bag of cash.
They started of on Housten and have grown up to a solid mercenary army.
Which has high ranked people and everything is very cordinated.
Now ofcourse a rich guild could make Battleships or Cruisers or whatever,
But why would they make them?
Okay they got intrested in the nomad tech, but their own tech (In disco) seems to lag behind quite a bit.
I thought they were king in technology. Doesn't show in the ship, equipment stats in any way.
If they would ever want anything close to a nomad they would need serious stuff.
Now if you say "They got a mako!" , "They have uber Fighter shape" you should now go and buy both and use them in combat. Tell me about your experiance.
Time to compare the Ossie and the Mako.
- Both make no RP sense when it comes to numbers of usage.
- Mako is twice the size of the ossie, maybe even 2,5 times
- Both same turning rate
Stats ossie:
Technical information
Guns/Turrets 0 / 12 (7 to 8 reverse shooting (I think)
Opt. weapon class 10
Max. weapon class 10
Additional equipment ■1xCM
Hull strength 700,000 (While twice as small)
Max. shield class 10
Cargo space 1,400 units
Nanobots/Batteries 1500/1500
Max. impulse speed 90 m/s (Reverse 50 m/s)
Max. thrust speed Thruster not available
Power output 7,000,000 u
Power recharge 220,000 u/s
Additional information
Ship price $445,000,000
Package price $710,000,000
Stats Mako:
Technical information
Guns/Turrets 0 / 14 (8/9 reverse shooting)
Opt. weapon class 10
Max. weapon class 10
Additional equipment ■1xCM
Hull strength 620,000 (While twice the size)
Max. shield class 10
Cargo space 1,500 units
Nanobots/Batteries 1400/1400
Max. impulse speed 90 m/s (Reverse 30 m/s)
Max. thrust speed Thruster not available
Power output 7,000,000 u
Power recharge 220,000 u/s
Additional information
Ship price $430,000,000
Package price $695,000,000
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So if you have read this you will notice...
- Mako is underpowered (If they should even be out there)
- Order (INRP) shouldn't have any caps expect 1
- Nomads need more numbers
- BHG (INRP) doesn't really make sense to have huge caps either.
...because a merc force would use tactics and military equipment especaily a rich one like these.
Okay it's a game so some things have no need to make sense.
But when you all are so in <3 with the story line and want to build upon in you have to face some fact about it.
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The battleships get nerfed in 4.86 everyone knows that.
(This is what I heared correct my mistakes)
Every battleship gets Light, medium, heavy slots.
Pulse, Razor, Mortar = Heavy
Secondary, Primary = Medium
Light = Solaris.
Flak fits where? (Light?)
So..
results.
Razor and pulses will never be used on ships with 1 heavy slot.
Bombers get even more gun shooting BS's since some BS's won't just damage them with that less solaris.
So here are is my opinion to fix this...
Make special slots for the razor and pulses.
Give capitals more slots in total.
for example ossie now has 12 turrets
1 heavy
8 medium?
3 light?
Make it like this. (Example)
1 Heavy
10 Medium
4 Special
6 Light
That way pilots just need to use weapons groups before they suck their core empty and won't be effecient anymore.
So..
People who are about the 'balance' of discovery explane why and how you did it this way.
Okay this might me a bit late. But I was thinking about it that it doesn't makes any sense in anyway in my opinion, maybe you can change it.
So people who are about the story line of disco
Explane to me Why it went this way.
Ofcourse this mod is to let everyone fly as many factions as he wants, but that doesn't mean you add everything and thing some impossible RP with it to make it fit disco.
And then I havn't even been talking about the odd'ness of the zoners faction/ships and RP.
Which I will also not do.
So give me your opinion about the Order > BHG Storyline and also about the ships RP reason in game.
And give your opinion about BS's new gunmounts.
Yes I voted a Yeah for that idea, since if it was done right it would be awsome. But it also mean some guns needed a buff.
So in short...
give your opinion.
And no this ain't a Rage or Q_Q thing
Sorry for all the typos
Edit:
One more thing
Saying you need Caps for dangerous missions also isn't really a good though.
If you have experiance pilots which the order and the BHG both have they should be able to do a lot in bombers and 'fighters.
everyone and his cat wants to fly capships. so here you are, rest is the matter of balance between factions.
the list of non-senses is much much longer.
Quote:So how can Mega transports (INRP) reach omicron Minor?
Presumably through the Zoners and other third party groups, not always going to need to ship the ships there piece by piece, the resources are really all they need for it.
Quote:So how can the Order build a shipyard?
So how can the Order have so many resources to build 5489674 ossies or even 1 The Isis.
So how can a few maybe 3000 pilots ,mechanics, officers, medics etc. Make a battleship out of nothing?
Its been what, 17 years since vanillia, every man and his dog now has five or so more stations, and considering the way technology jumped in the one year during nomad infestation (i.e. compare Eagle vs Defender, "both top of the line" about the time you're supposed to get them) In addition, the order, after having their base bombed, probably went into recruitment overdrive, building up resources and bases while they had the peace from nomad attacks, so they would be better prepared next time. I would also imagine that the alliance with the corsair empire had pretty profound effects on their resource base, and,
About the battleships, Kusari completely lost their millitary during the nomad war, they're now spearheading into bretonia with a massive fleet. Bretonia had the lowest losses of the nomad war, and they're loosing the Tau conflict. Makes no sense at all.
A metric ton of stuff has changed since vanillia, the order now has a much larger agent base throughout Sirius.
Quote:There is a reason they stole the Osiris, It's because they couldn't build one.
So the Osiris is a prototype vessel.
It does have a cloacking device.
It also got an impressive shape and firepower for it's size,
However the propulsion system is about the same as the Libby dread. (Rev 50ms makes no sense)
The Osiris class battleship is a different beast to both the original Isis and the newer, heavier Liberty dreadnaught. It has obviously taken a different development path to its 'Predecessor' and has been made into a strike battleship. Besides. The reason caps are used in the omicrons is because IRP, dodging around in your fighter is probably not happening for a good deal of pilots, and they get shot up without heavier support to get repairs from, Its why the core has capital craft as well.
In addition BHG is not quite the same as the BHG Core. Guild core is less of a mercenary army, and more of a organization dedicated to research and development of better and better technologies for various purposes, like waging war. The capital class vessels are used in the Omicrons because the omicrons are dangerous places. In addition, thresher, buckshot, Bullhead (only open BS turreted BC with thruster, rips up cruisers, can kite well thanks to the thruster too). The BS isn't really the worst of them, it has a rather nice profile, it is a light BS, and it has 14 guns, as opposed to the 12 on the other lighter BSes, meaning its better suited to group engagements as opposed to BS duels.
If you notice:
The order has reasons for having caps (irp)
The Core has reasons for having caps (irp)
Military equipment is pretty generic stuff.
Barring bombers, most nomad stuff in the Omicrons isn't actually that dangerous to Caps. (But bombers are strong against fighters too)
Remember: Disco takes its base off of the Vanilla, but it has long developed away from it.
And. Tis a game, sure, there could be less Osirises flyin round, but we're here to have fun, and at times, flying an ossie, or other caps, can be bucketloads of fun. Specially if you have other caps to fight, which the omicrons can provide. Other times, its more fun flying round in a fighter pewing stuff, good, but not everyone enjoys this, for various reasons.
Bout the turret classes, dunno, but I hope that yer'll still be able to specialize a bit, and I already do a mixed combo with my BS, so its not that much of a change anyway.
yeah falc. balance > rp. if it was the other way around, everyone would be playing for the winning team and we would all just sit around and sip on tea or something.
This mod needs less restrictions, not more. Does everything make perfect sense? Absolutely not, but it's close enough that we can work with it.
As for stats, yes, the Osiris is by far the most powerful publicly-available battleship in the game, and the Mako is notably worse as a "normal" battleship. But then again, it's a good support battleship, especially when mortar sniping, so y'know...
However, battleships're getting buffed, not nerfed. Those medium slots are for Primaries and Pulses, not Primaries and Secondaries. More importantly, Pulses and Primaries would be quadded. Each Pulse or Primary turret will do four times as much damage as it does now, but take four times as much energy. In other words 4 Pulse/Primaries now = 1 Pulse/Primary in .86. So if you get 4 "medium" slots, you still have 16 "modern" primaries... plus you also get 2-4 "heavy" slots (HM, Mortar, missiles, razors) and 8 "light" slots (reverse-quadded Solaris turrets with longer range, secondaries, flak, etc). This would make battleships very powerful.
Here's the original quote of the relevant parts of Mjolnir's battleship buffing proposition.
' Wrote:The amount of turrets of each class will be the limiting factor for firepower vs specific target instead of artificial means like range (= current Solaris and Secondaries) or energy (current Flaks and Solaris). Based on the looks of vanilla BS slots showed below the numbers and stats of the new turrets would be something like this:
Depending on their "class" each BS will have (as an example) 2-4 heavy slots
~4 primary slots
~5-15 light slots
Heavy slots would include (example)
Heavy Mortar, Mortar, Razors, Missile - with about same stats as now
+ future heavy guns
Primary slots
"Concentrated" Primaries, Pulses - each will do about same damage and take same energy as 4 current ones
+ future guns
Light slots
"Distributed" Solaris - say one will do 1/4 of current solaris damage for 1/4 of the energy and have say 1.6 k range
Flaks, Secondaries + future light guns (dumb fire missiles maybe, different version of solaris etc..)
Note that while this might in a way limit your loadout in the start it also allows for more specialized (and energy efficient) guns to be made because there will be much less abuse problems with specific loadouts. Simple example would be battlerazor which is now very slow refire and high energy use to avoid BS mounting 10 of them. This off course needs complete re-balancing of all BS and their hardpoints and a lot of testing, which is why this is meant for 4.86.
EDIT: Btw. this also follows vanilla logic, as in vanilla each BS had up to 4 different classes of turrets.
Anyway is this a wanted development?
==============================
Bellow follows how it will look on those vanilla BS
Red dots indicate Heavy guns Yellow Indicate "Primary" slots Blue Indicate Light Slots Purple Indicate slots currently unused on the vanilla models, which could be used for light slots.
Liberty BS
3 Heavy all forward and back (one should be reduced to forward only (fires trough whole ship))
4 Primaries
5 (11) Light - probably only 9 should be used, cause 2 of them are right next to 2 already used (on the front wings), this would make it very simillar to BR one
Bretonian BS
3 Heavy Slots - 3 forward, 2 back
4 Primary slots
7 (9) Light Slots
Rheinland BS
(with all hardpoints +2 modeled spots)
4 Heavy slots - 2 forward, 2 backward
4 Primary slots - forwards only
10 (15) Light slots Kusari
(with all hardpoints)
2 forward only (4)
4 Primary slots
12 Light Slots Osiris
Nomads blow up every transport that they see.
So it's actually inlikly convoys get through and still make profit (INRP)
Also the a lot of things is disco already existed in the story line
And still the fact is that the order can't build caps bases since they don't have any kind of resourses what so ever or the men and equipment to gain them.
the freeport in delta is only in delta because the order can protects it with caps and those caps shouldn't exist.
Having a reason for having caps doesn't mean you can build them.
okay the BHG can build them
But why would they design a light one when they are in the most hars envoirment in whole of serius?
It's a waste of cash to make a target disk just to let it get blown up by everything.
And since Delta ain't dangerous is a server side thing.
But infact delta is nomad infested.
And anything big enough would just draw all nomad swarms and get pawned.
So zoners wouldn't exist if the order had no caps.
so no caps means no FP
No FP would mean no life in delta.
Sometimes bigger doesn't mean better.
Having small crafts dóesn't get to much attention
so that might reduce the chance of nomads blowing up food and resourse transports.
So in short for a mega project to produce ossies it's impossible since the nomads would reduce the chance of safe passage of traders.
And all NPC's in delta are to weak anyway.
and if the keepers were more active I bet no zoner would even come in the omicrons.
But all keepers got shot to bits in ossies so keepers only come in houses. (In my experiance for the last 3 months.)
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@Denelo
Okay so they get buffed that part falls then, thanks
But I would like more guns with same stats then boosting the gun stats.
Since it would still unbalance things, all your shots count with the new energy consume. every miss hurts you. This has a much greater effect then how it is now.
But still Some people here go nuts about things having to be RP
So why only the things that favours them in RP and stats get done?
As I recall again ossie is 2 times smaller and has more armor then the mako
now tell me which is better for mortar spam?
if you want to balance the mako give it 800k and it's done.
The BHG - core wouldn't make a ship to get shot apart by 1 single enemy it's a waste of cash.
and since the Mako is newer then the ossie.
' Wrote:I personally believe that only house militaries should have BS, not hunters, miners, secret organizations...etc
That.
But also when they get them make some really good fitting RP that could be possible.
Not something impossible
And I started this since all the madness about the Food problem in the omicrons.
It's not just food its also raw materials.
' Wrote:yeah falc. balance > rp. if it was the other way around, everyone would be playing for the winning team and we would all just sit around and sip on tea or something.
Which is why the ossie is spammed D:
' Wrote:Ehm,and where is the part that corsairs builded ships fororder in their shipyards?... That is answer how was order able to construct caps
I'm not into corsairs.
But the idea that they own a huge planet which looks more alive then minor it makes about 34% more sense they own bigger ships.
Well,corsairs also have their own biodomes now,
and about caps, well i have cap ship,but i still think that caps are useless... For example mns raids in gamma,last time it was like 6 bs, 2 dessies and gb.and they got owned by 6 bombers.
And you can give them guns how much you like, but if will heavy caps stay so big and slow targets that you can hit them with sn from 1k, then they will still stay easy targets for small and fast ships