Quote:5.x: If a vessel engaging a freighter or transport has to withdraw to NPC or station interference, the combat is declared a draw and neither is subject to the PvP death rules.
Arms and Legs Guy Wrote:Don't tell them the truth : That in reality you are a potbellied german VW factory worker named Horst.
Quote:5.6 Fleeing in combat counts as a PVP death. Fleeing is:
a) Docking with a jump gate or tradelane, or fleeing to a station;
b) Moving more than 10km from the fight.
Would be a solution, but there are some drawbacks to it:
-What if the pvp engagement started near a station? For example, Sabre pvp-seeker in New York attacks noob/pro-Navy near Missouri, Fort Bush, or even Manhattan. Noob/pro Navy goes a little closer to station and doesnt lose. Sabre goes "lol you ran to station". Would encourage base camping, pvp whoring in enemy systems, and genereral weird behavior à la extreme.
-Really shifts the ballance miner vs pirate in an unfair way towards miners. If you cant even beat a loan miner near a base (actually its quite easy to get a station to hit a hegemon if you move behind him) in your pirate ship, get a friend. If you change the rule like that, mining systems will be totally owned by pirates.
-Gives people who have a base nearby a DISADVANTAGE instead of an ADVANTAGE. Thats just horrible in RP.
-It would encourage lawful to persue pirates all the way to "hidden" pirate bases, because that is sure to give them a win and make the pirate leave. They arent suposed to go there... and once they went there, what happens to all the pirates sitting aroudn that base? Did they "run" to it too?
Another way to solve it would be to say:
Quote:5.6 Fleeing in combat counts as a PVP death. Fleeing is:
a) Docking with a jump gate or tradelane, or fleeing to a station;
b) Moving more than 10km from the fight, except if the enemy has moved to use the guns of a base as cover, and the engagement began more than 5k away from the base.
In this situation, the guy who has fled can still start following/tracking you for his buddies again once he fled to a base, but that wont lead to a rule-lawyering stalemate because if he fled once, the chances that you will kick his butt once he is far enough from the base again are pretty high. The fact that he can do that also reduces the chances that people will go pvp-whoring near bases with their new-found freedom to go pvp-seeking near enemy bases.
' Wrote:This particular loophole is about to be closed. Stay tuned for Q_Q
Well hurry up in telling us how then, and also if you are planning any other rule changes.
I'm about to make an outrageous number of polls about proposed rule changes, including that one.
I don't have a problem with people mining, trading, or staying in the system. However, I have yet to encounter a person who agrees to let me stay in the system should I leave the stationary cap or base. The response is always, "If you leave, leave the system" or "Now leave system" after I've flown away from the base or the cap.
Unfortunately, it's clear that the person who has been pursued to the station/base has lost - but the victor, if he leaves is now the loser.
I don't really have a problem with losing. If you knew me, you would know that I've taken more losses than most people here have.
I do have a problem with people using a station or a stat cap that I cannot destroy or disable as a means to prevent the player interaction that I began with him/her from continuing. If you're going to run, dock. Don't circle the base and bore your opponent to death then rule lawyer them into leaving.
ADDM:
Quote:-Really shifts the ballance miner vs pirate in an unfair way towards miners. If you cant even beat a loan miner near a base (actually its quite easy to get a station to hit a hegemon if you move behind him) in your pirate ship, get a friend. If you change the rule like that, mining systems will be totally owned by pirates.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Miners make enough money as is.
If a miner is near a base and is attacked, he should dock, not camp it until the pirate gets bored, then report the pirate for not leaving the system after a pvp-loss.
Quote:5.x: If a vessel engaging a freighter or transport has to withdraw to NPC or station interference, the combat is declared a draw and neither is subject to the PvP death rules.
This won't solve the problem. The engagement will just occur again in 10 minutes, and the situation will repeat itself with both parties trying to kill each other over and over again. In addition, this gives the party who can idle by a friendly base an advantage - he can now dock, resupply, and re-engage his foe.
Quote:-What if the pvp engagement started near a station? For example, Sabre pvp-seeker in New York attacks noob/pro-Navy near Missouri, Fort Bush, or even Manhattan. Noob/pro Navy goes a little closer to station and doesnt lose. Sabre goes "lol you ran to station". Would encourage base camping, pvp whoring in enemy systems, and genereral weird behavior à la extreme.
There's a massive difference between a fight around a station, and "camping the base waiting for your opponent to leave."
The massive difference is: in the former, there is fighting going on.
In the latter, the guy just flies in circles around a base that's hostile to you until you get tired and leave, and then he rule-lawyers you into leaving the system because "you flew 10k away from the engagement."
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?
' Wrote:I don't have a problem with people mining, trading, or staying in the system. However, I have yet to encounter a person who agrees to let me stay in the system should I leave the stationary cap or base. The response is always, "If you leave, leave the system" or "Now leave system" after I've flown away from the base or the cap.
Unfortunately, it's clear that the person who has been pursued to the station/base has lost - but the victor, if he leaves is now the loser.
I don't really have a problem with losing. If you knew me, you would know that I've taken more losses than most people here have.
I do have a problem with people using a station or a stat cap that I cannot destroy or disable as a means to prevent the player interaction that I began with him/her from continuing. If you're going to run, dock. Don't circle the base and bore your opponent to death then rule lawyer them into leaving.
Of course people ask you to leave, because they dont want to be pirated again, and because they want to keep mining.
You would do the same thing, if rules said so.
They aren't going to see themselves as a-holes for doing it, because they saw you as an a-hole for pirating them in the first place.
' Wrote:Of course people ask you to leave, because they dont want to be pirated again, and because they want to keep mining.
You would do the same thing, if rules said so.
They aren't going to see themselves as a-holes for doing it, because they saw you as an a-hole for pirating them in the first place.
I would not do this. I would dock and swap to another character for at least 4 hours, since I lost an engagement. I do not have the patience, and am not so sad of an individual that I need to camp a base in order to force my opponent away, only to rule lawyer him into leaving or getting sanctioned.
They might not seem themselves in a negative light for doing it, but the fact remains, that the reason why they're doing it is based on a rather conspicuous loophole in the rules at the moment.
Are you refusing to see that "boring your opponent until he/she leaves" is not a very good form of player interaction and should be avoided?
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?
' Wrote:I would not do this. I would dock and swap to another character for at least 4 hours, since I lost an engagement. I do not have the patience, and am not so sad of an individual that I need to camp a base in order to force my opponent away, only to rule lawyer him into leaving or getting sanctioned.
They might not seem themselves in a negative light for doing it, but the fact remains, that the reason why they're doing it is based on a rather conspicuous loophole in the rules at the moment.
Do you never ask a miner to leave after he docked?
Do you see yourself as a "sad individual" when you ask someone to leave if he docked or fled?
It's not impossible to kill someone who is hiding near a base. I have done so many times.
If you cant, you are not able to win a pvp engagement.
Its your business to leave or not.
The fact that you call him a "sad individual" shows that you arent able to put yourself in your oponent's postion, which everyone should try to do.
' Wrote:Are you refusing to see that "boring your opponent until he/she leaves" is not a very good form of player interaction and should be avoided?
Yeah thats why I want to change the rules that you can leave a base-hugger without having to leave the system.
' Wrote:This won't solve the problem. The engagement will just occur again in 10 minutes, and the situation will repeat itself with both parties trying to kill each other over and over again. In addition, this gives the party who can idle by a friendly base an advantage - he can now dock, resupply, and re-engage his foe.
There's a massive difference between a fight around a station, and "camping the base waiting for your opponent to leave."
If both of you dont get the idea to get a friend to help you, yeah you will do the same thing in a loop over and over.
My main point is...
There IS a way to kill people who hug bases.
If you cant, you started something that you were not able to finish, and its your own fault.
Quote:Do you never ask a miner to leave after he docked?
Do you see yourself as a "sad individual" when you ask someone to leave if he docked or fled?
No, I don't. I just don't rule lawyer. Read what I've already written:
Quote:However, I have yet to encounter a person who agrees to let me stay in the system should I leave the stationary cap or base. The response is always, "If you leave, leave the system" or "Now leave system" after I've flown away from the base or the cap.
Clearly, they're not going to agree with me if I ask them to leave. The only way that would happen is if I outlast them, which is somewhat difficult when help is on the way, several NPCs are flying about, and station turrets and pulses are bearing down on you.
Quote:The fact that you call him a "sad individual" shows that you arent able to put yourself in your oponent's postion, which everyone should try to do.
I can't put myself in their position, because I don't rulelawyer people into leaving systems because I can't beat them in a fair, pvp engagement that does not involve me running to a base with unlimited firepower and powerplant. Sorry!
Like I said, I'd dock.
Quote:There IS a way to kill people who hug bases.
If you cant, you started something that you were not able to finish, and its your own fault.
I invite you to attempt to kill my Guardian while I circle around a Liberty stationary cap for 2 hours while I throw insults at you and tell you to leave the system. I seriously, seriously want to see this.
Reply if you wish. But, I am done arguing with you, since the problem is, you haven't experienced the problems that this loophole leads to. I'm sure that if you do experience them, you might be able to put yourself in my shoes, which is something you should always do.
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?