' Wrote:People used to be able to solo gunboats in a fighter. Soloing an anti-fighter platform, in a fighter...
Also, before TZ and TS, capital ships were flown as if it was piloted by a one man crew. TZ and TS allow you to steer in one direction, whilst firing the in opposite the direction. This makes sense since capitals ships have different crew members assigned to different tasks. That is, a gunner wouldn't be weighed down by piloting and a pilot wouldn't be weighed down with shooting. TZ and TS is our current solution to the problem even though capitals are still, obviously piloted by a single person.
' Wrote:its funny because most of the battle commanders fly fighters and call the shots from the heart of the fight
They do in Freelancer, a multiplayer online game, because that way they have a chance of staying alive longer(as capitals usually go down first since they're focus fired upon). Also, it is supposed to give the capital ship commander(captain) an overview of the battle, not only the person commanding the whole fleet.
In reality, which this game is trying to turn to a bit, only a moronic commander would go out of a capital in a fighter because a few shots might leave his fleet in chaos, and bring his time to an end.
What bloogaL said is correct. TS/TZ is supposed to give an overview of the battle and give capitals a different way to fight than 'turn towards the target and shoot forward'.
' Wrote:"What did the devs INTEND turret zoom to do/fix when they implemented it"?
' Wrote:to differentiate the skills needed to optimize the strength of those very different shipclasses. capital ships are not benefitting from a perfect "hand eye coordination" ( usually referred to as "skill" ) - but from a calm assessment of a situation and the experience/knowledge when to strike where ( usually in an arcade game that is NOT referred to as a skill )
All people from the other two threads about "turret zoom" missed one fact: Most of the cap ship players were happy (in 4.85) about the future "turret unzoom/zoom + steer" WITHOUT EVEN TO KNOW HOW IT WILL GONA WORK. None of them belived this would turn the gunboats in to something "superior" and yet all of them were EXPECTING the "ZOOM" option because they would finaly fly their ships as normal star ships.
That means all those players were thinking the same thing: large caps must stop be used as larger gunboats or to move like them (engine kill/thruster/ free mouse flight).
In 4.85, those that tried to work on the LIMITED x0 unzoom(turret view) with battleships had a very bad moments of how 2 bombers could own them from 4.5k range, I've seen this many times and reason for it was ofcourse the skill of the players but...its was fact that 2 bombers were > all. Right now 2 bombers can rip apart 2-3 battleships without losing a single b/b IF the BS dont have any flaks. Reason: Nova spam.
-Battleship unzoom (at least x5) is what I find as very handy and giving a new opportunity to fight as platform not as large freighter. In that stance you dont have "autoaim". Using more unzoom on battleships is making them significantly weak to react on close range shots, which obviously they wont be able to see (if unzooming to watch 3.5k away).
-Cruiser unzoom (at least x3) is what I belive now is enough for these ships to maintain their fire and to remove "tail" units faster. (Depending on the cruiser ship)
-Gunboat unzoom (of x10) is NOT what I and obviously the other players expected. SOME gunships and SOME gunboats (smaller) have significant buff to their aim and considering they can keep their maneuverability at max (<with skill) they can be more than deadly.
-Gunboat unzoom (of x2-3) is what I find as ENOUGH. On my bret gunboat I tested x 4 and x 10 and the results were the same, for the very old reason of "bretonia light cruiser's size". Even with x 4 unzoom a standart gunboat would have enough area to observe but the "Auto-aim" situation wont happen because x10 would be removed.
Removing unzoom at all will bring us back to 4.85. All of us will then use only bombers to counter caps and only fighters (cuz 3 could kill gunboats). Fighter players will be all happy, Capital players will be all sad and ragequit-ragesell their caps...disco will have fighter units only whom will laugh at every cap. For me fighter players should have their vets and pros. Same must goes for cap players but the skills of these two groups must not be broken: with autoaim (like now) and with snub possibility to kill caps in small numbers. This is ofcourse my own oppinion which I support with what I've seen in 4.85.
' Wrote:and only fighters (cuz 3 could kill gunboats).
lolno, they will kill noob caps. The ones who haven't put in any practice. There are .85 guys who could take on 5 bombers at once, I personally could take on 4 fighters at once with good odds in my gunboat.
The ships w/o zoom are still able to do what they're intended to do, the players just have to get good at them, JUST AS the players in fighters and bombers have to get good in those ships to be effective in them.
The intention of zoom, can already be achieved without it, if the player just puts in alittle effort.
' Wrote:I personally could take on 4 fighters at once with good odds in my gunboat.
Just because you are good (from what we heard after 1000 self proclaiming messages (your may be good but cut it out. Joker was good but he never stated it as much as you do) ) doesnt mean the system must be balanced considering how you handle multiple enemies. If your gb can do it that doesnt mean we need to nerf all gbs to not be able to fight "4" fighters. If you can fight well with 3x unzoom and someone else with same unzoom rate can beat your or take your shield down doest mean it dont have skill. It means the new generation adapted to the 4.86 ways of fighting instead of 4.85.
Skills from the past are not skills in the future when it comes to updates/patches/expansions that changes the mechanics and etc...you know what I mean.
(Yes "LOL" but wow/tbc/wotlk/cataclysm are 4 different expansions (just like 4.84, 85 and 86) and all of them have "TOP" classes which are different per expansion. If bombers were OP in 84, snubs in 85, why not caps to be something new in 86? Ofcourse Nerfing TZx10 for gunboats is necessary)
p.s: Hone said this thread must not be like the other two so you may post your answer there or place your oppinion about "Intentions for TZ" here.
' Wrote:Skills from the past are not skills in the future when it comes to updates/patches/expansions that changes the mechanics and etc...you know what I mean.
But you are confusing better stats with skill good love;)
Which is what I've been trying to explain this whole time.
Zoom doesn't introduce a new skill set, it limits the possibility completely.
As for you claiming that I am "boasting." It is to show that the purpose of zoom is already fulfilled without it being here, a player has but to learn to fly their ship properly, instead of a cheap auto aim. Get what I'm saying?
As to the original purpose of zoom, it has already been stated. Not sure why thread is still active.
It sucks to fight in a cap like a fighter fights. Very sucks. Some guys were good at it, but they used some of the best gunboats to achieve that status. TZ came along and anyone who has any common sense was as good as those guys. Anyone. No need to practice aiming. Monkeys can aim with TZ gunboats.
I'm all for leaving TZ completely alone if we can fix the autoaim so that it acts just like it does when not zoomed.
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