(10-28-2012, 03:46 AM)Veygaar Wrote: Ah ok, that was all.
Cheers!
It's not quite all. It's only a good testimony of an issue with liberty lawful factions.
When you decide to get in that stuff and lead all the things, then I suggest you actually do it and not turn it into an epeen of massive destruction.
I mean please, the liberty government was created after these lawful official factions were crying because the LN was taking care of government stuff without their involvement.
All that happened in that thread is that gungun1000 suffered of a major penis outbreak as all these leaders of inactive factions were sad they haven't been able to rule life or death.
It's not like it's something that was extremely difficult to do anyway. I talked to him ingame previously, asked the rest of the LN hc what they thought about it, then I checked ingame if there was anything relevant in that defined spot. Even Joe didn't say anything.
Honestly it's not anything complicated or totally opposed to lib's rp. This was just an ore storage base. Hell the LN even had docking rights to it. The only difference is that he didn't have to wait 3 weeks to get a reply to his request.
You see that's the thing that piss me off. People want to get involved in big things and get responsabilities, even if it's on a game, but once there's actually something to do, mysteriously everybody is gone and Joe ends up having to manage all the things when he's already got a good bunch of work irl.
So yeah to conclude his base was destroyed because of hurted epeen of faction leaders leading factions with 10 hours of activity or logging afk ships to keep their status. That's why I don't give a damn and will definitely continue to reply to people so they don't wait between 3 or 4 weeks for a simple reply that only requires common sense.
(10-31-2012, 02:54 PM)Alley Wrote: It's not quite all. It's only a good testimony of an issue with liberty lawful factions.
When you decide to get in that stuff and lead all the things, then I suggest you actually do it and not turn it into an epeen of massive destruction.
I mean please, the liberty government was created after these lawful official factions were crying because the LN was taking care of government stuff without their involvement.
All that happened in that thread is that gungun1000 suffered of a major penis outbreak as all these leaders of inactive factions were sad they haven't been able to rule life or death.
It's not like it's something that was extremely difficult to do anyway. I talked to him ingame previously, asked the rest of the LN hc what they thought about it, then I checked ingame if there was anything relevant in that defined spot. Even Joe didn't say anything.
Honestly it's not anything complicated or totally opposed to lib's rp. This was just an ore storage base. Hell the LN even had docking rights to it. The only difference is that he didn't have to wait 3 weeks to get a reply to his request.
You see that's the thing that piss me off. People want to get involved in big things and get responsabilities, even if it's on a game, but once there's actually something to do, mysteriously everybody is gone and Joe ends up having to manage all the things when he's already got a good bunch of work irl.
So yeah to conclude his base was destroyed because of hurted epeen of faction leaders leading factions with 10 hours of activity or logging afk ships to keep their status. That's why I don't give a damn and will definitely continue to reply to people so they don't wait between 3 or 4 weeks for a simple reply that only requires common sense.
Charming as always, Alley. Joe is not the only person with a busy RL outside of this game. Don't bite my head off for taking care of one item in the spare five minutes I found...
You've created a rather inaccurate picture of me (and/or other people) as "sad", "butthurt", and "seeking epeen inflation", which is quite frankly not the case.
Accusing me of backing away from responsibilities and the work associated with the Government is a far cry from reality; as it stands currently, I have done the most Government work second to Joe. When McNeo was still around, there was a period of several months where he and I essentially handled all of the Government business between us. I'm not doing less currently because I don't want to - it is simply because I do not have the time. There are plenty of other people you can point a finger at who actually do nothing.
What was happening around a month ago:
Me: "Hey, Alley is responding to comms directed at LN HC. That's cool I guess, not really Government business."
...
Me: "Ok, Alley just approved some random base owned by a player who we've never heard of. Excuse me Joe, but this is either really out of line or a very skilled troll post."
Joe: "I'll talk to her about it."
I would never take silence or lack of response to imply agreement.
(NB: You said "the Navy will extend its patrols to cover the base" which is usually the complete opposite of Government policy, which put your entire post under suspicion of its validity. Unless the LN has a new policy I haven't heard about...)
Essentially, you approved that base, and then the Government said: "Wait, no, we're not cool with that. LN, you'll handle this internally yeah?"
"Yeah."
And then nothing happened, and the base's existence was forgotten.
Recently, we get a message from that colonial indie telling us he's found a base in Pennsylvania. In a business-as-usual manner, I replied to the sender thanking him for this information and that we'd take the appropriate action. http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=89302
At that point in time, I had no recollection whatsoever that you had "approved" the existence of said base; it's also not like you made any effort to have said base documented formally in the Liberty Law (which lists all currently approved bases within the House).
Then, before I could draft a message to the owner of said base - who has already channel-hacked the message sent earlier - posts an equivalent of a ragequit message telling no one in particular to just destroy his base. http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=89305
Then, the existence of your approval was pointed out to me:
[28/10/2012 1:25:18 PM] TЯALAЯAWЯ FFS: That's the damn base that Alley approved without talking to anyone else first..? http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=88889
which made me surprised (because I had completely forgotten about it) and annoyed (because it should never have happened in the first place). In light of this, I decided to clean up this business and formally order the base's destruction, intending to rectify the mistake of the base's approval.
I was later informed that the base died; I don't know whether it was a lawful attack, unlawful attack, or the owner suiciding the base. Regardless, claiming that it was just an honest ore storage facility isn't accurate; having an Outcast dreadnought being seen docking with the base completely degrades its credibility.
Condemn me all you want, but it won't cause the base to return, nor will it erase the mistakes made by the people involved (including you). I stand by the decision I made at the time, given the information available to me.
Addendum: I believe this could have been averted, had you followed through with all the necessary paperwork associated with POB registration; or, had the base owner brought it to our attention that he was under the impression that his base was legally registered, rather than giving up the moment the comms went through.
Nowhere did I imply that LibGov would order the base's destruction in the first post; it was the owner's invitation to destroy it which sealed its fate. In fact, I was just planning on the standard "Who are you, what is your base doing, and please pay a fine for not registering properly before you built the base."
---
TL;DR version of what happened.
CR indie: "We found a base in Penn."
LibGov: "Thanks for the info, we'll take action."
gungun1000: "destroy my base please I quit the server"
LibGov: "Ok. Base authorisation revoked."
The government is damned slow and needs to work faster. That much is very very true. In the absense of things being done, people get frustrated and do it themselves. That's simple enough. The way to solve the issue? Doing things.
Max, you may well work in that Government, and get stuff done. Infact I know you're one of the more pro-active and useful folks around, but there's plenty who don't. Infact, I'd suggest to you that you do less and delegate more, letting you actually look after your own faction with the free time that you have.
I'll not point ifngers, but there are folks in that government chat who've hardly lifted a finger to do any paperwork in months. If the manpower we have in there actually did things, then we'd be able to keep on top of everything with little effort. However, due to the fact that nly three people do stuff, and they often try to delegate to uninterested parties... It gets bogged down and slow.
As for Alley approving that base? Nah, she shouldn't have, honestly... But it brings a pretty big issue to the fore. That being, nothing happens unless you or I do it.
I disagree with ordering the destruction of that base. I let you know that in the chat. I think that guy having to take the hit for it basically sucked.
Once something is done, then it's simply done. I don't object to Alley's decision on the matter, infact it's the call I would have made myself. A harmless base from a harmless character in a harmless location.
This is the first I've heard about an OC dread.
I'll be reimbursing him out of my own pocket. Because I severely doubt anyone else is going to do it.
However, this line of discussion is being put to bed now.
That's the most annoying point actually. LN HC was consulted, including Sarah. I even specified twice once he gave us the coords of the base and docking rights for someone to copy paste the stuff in the lib gov chat. It hasn't been done apparently.
"claiming that it was just an honest ore storage facility isn't accurate; having an Outcast dreadnought being seen docking with the base completely degrades its credibility."
He broke the agreements of hosting no unlawfuls. That base was to die then. Once again, it took more than a week for someone being part of the lib gov group to actually tell me what event led to it despite me asking. Do you seriously always need people to make posts like my previous one to finally get a proper answer?
Hey guys, that was my transport (the no cm/1 gun Outcast Kujira) you just shot (your silent [C] dude playing policeman, the [LN] guy pewing and Mr. Hale himself freelancin') and I just want to divert your attention to this for a short moment:
Quote:6.6 Aggressors are not allowed to destroy a trade vessel prior to issuing a demand, in system or local chat, and allowing sufficient time to respond. Demands may be cargo, credits or an RP demand, such as leaving the system. "Halt" is not a demand. You must say more than this to ask a ship to stop however you may destroy them if they attempt escape.
"Picures done" and "destroy it" doesn't really suffice, you know that. So not trying to cause a fuss, heck I have hauled so much cardamine and this is my first time caught, I just think you should shape up a little.
What's wrong with my ship? It RP'd like mad but you were silent / on "destructo-mode" and that's totally fine by me.
I was just of the understanding that demands needs to be issued before killing a trade vessel? Like "drop your cargo and pay x million and never show your ugly Outcast face in Liberty again" or "you're going to jail or you're going to die, your choice buddy" and so on?
We were contacted by the Council and informed a Cardamine shipment was on it's way to California from Cortez. We told him to pin you untill we arrived.
Now if it had been the LPI-, they would have fined you/sent you to jail I believe. However for us it would have been OORP to do so. What we do is take pictures for the administrative procedure of registering your vessel as a criminal ship on the liberty database then proceed to destroy it.
Ok np so because I was on an Outcast ID I constitute "a Pirate" (even though I have no CD, 1 gun and 10% power), which in turn overrules 6.6 in terms of the following line on the LN ID:
Quote:Can hunt pirates and terrorists within Liberty and the Independent Systems directly bordering Liberty.
Is that correct?
Maybe this belongs in the general rules section. I'm curious about when a ship is a "trade vessel" then.
And I don't mind the scarce roleplay leading to my ship's destruction - I was afterall a Cardamine hauling Outcast scumbag (but don't get angry when /l1 Rheinlanders pew you now ).
(11-10-2012, 03:08 AM)Anaximander Wrote: Ok np so because I was on an Outcast ID I constitute "a Pirate" (even though I have no CD, 1 gun and 10% power), which in turn overrules 6.6 in terms of the following line on the LN ID:
Quote:Can hunt pirates and terrorists within Liberty and the Independent Systems directly bordering Liberty.
Is that correct?
Maybe this belongs in the general rules section. I'm curious about when a ship is a "trade vessel" then.
And I don't mind the scarce roleplay leading to my ship's destruction - I was afterall a Cardamine hauling Outcast scumbag (but don't get angry when /l1 Rheinlanders pew you now ).
Well yes, you had an OC ID and OC IFF. For us that falls under pirates and terrorists. I don't really know why you were expecting something, as... well... there's not much we can provide you. If it had been an illegal Rheinland transport, we could have interrogated him for intelligence. but OC?