(07-09-2018, 03:52 PM)Laz Wrote: Oh. That is something different. That was designed by me. Karlotta's system was this.
The /helpmenu development didn't involve her at all as she denied us use of her content, but that's by the by.
"denied us use of her content" is misinformation. I gave you permission to use my content. Twice. You were just unwilling or unable to do anything with it until after I finished the help system on my own, and you haven't provided anything better until now, after getting mine removed with this misinformation.
Since you've spread misinformation to the point of having two of your [Angels] post crap at me on the forum, and then replying my attempt to talk to them with memes or by blocking me after a single pm asking what their problem is, and also you've misrepresented our skype conversations repeatedly, I'll post them here.
This is after I gave you permission the first time, and tried to help you with the FLHook, advising you to not try to do the Laws and contraband menu first, then even trying to help you with the laws menu. You laws menu isn't finished to this day.
[19.12.2017 15:42:15] Karlotta Engelbrecher: So where is the difficulty in dumping text on screen like all the other commands do?
[19.12.2017 15:42:44] Laz: In simple terms, the command I made for the help menu was greatly different to the commands in the laws menu.
[19.12.2017 15:43:06] Karlotta Engelbrecher: laws menu?
[19.12.2017 15:43:07] Laz: Before I even attempt to submit them, I need to rewrite a chunk of it as well
[19.12.2017 15:43:13] Laz: Check my FLHook thread
[19.12.2017 15:47:02] Karlotta Engelbrecher: Can you send me the code for a law menu so I can put the ingame help into that then?
[19.12.2017 15:47:25] Laz: You can look at it in the FLHook repo when I am done.
[19.12.2017 15:48:07] Karlotta Engelbrecher: And when are you done? It seems finished.
[19.12.2017 15:51:29] Karlotta Engelbrecher: You type a command, it puts text into a window. What more is there to do?
[19.12.2017 15:52:06] Laz: I already said. I need to rewrite a bunch of code to make it more efficient. So far the same lines of text is called for every single function.
The long part (setting up the cfg file) is already done.
[19.12.2017 15:52:16] Laz: But I still need to finish some of my other plugins that are attached to this one.
[19.12.2017 15:52:29] Laz: Like the laws menu, or my contraband addon.
[19.12.2017 15:52:40] Karlotta Engelbrecher: Is there anything I can do to speed things up?
[19.12.2017 15:53:29] Laz: There is actually. Go around each of the governments and get them to write up a dumbed down version of their laws. I have a draft laying around somewhere, let me get it.
[19.12.2017 15:54:12] Karlotta Engelbrecher: I mean for the help system. Putting that into code.
[19.12.2017 15:54:39] Karlotta Engelbrecher: but you can send me the draft for the laws anyway
[19.12.2017 15:54:49] Laz: Well the help wont be done until the laws are
[19.12.2017 15:54:55] Laz: and the laws wont be done until that is done
[19.12.2017 15:55:09] Laz: and that is dependent on my contraband plugin.
[19.12.2017 15:58:07] Karlotta Engelbrecher: And why not just give me the code to make a text window opened by a command so I can work on that for hte help system myself?
[19.12.2017 16:02:57] Laz: What would that achieve?
[19.12.2017 16:03:10] Laz: That is the easy part.
[19.12.2017 16:03:11] Karlotta Engelbrecher: speeding things up for the help system?
[19.12.2017 16:03:27] Laz: One cannot be done when others are still requiring work.
[19.12.2017 16:04:09] Karlotta Engelbrecher: why?
[19.12.2017 16:04:35] Laz: They are all part of the same plugin
[19.12.2017 16:04:41] Laz: each one is it's own cpp file
[19.12.2017 16:04:51] Laz: and they all connect via a main header file.
[19.12.2017 16:05:11] Laz: Main.cpp controls the commands and inputs, as well as the function calls
[19.12.2017 16:06:07] Karlotta Engelbrecher: well somewhere there must be a part or cpp file for each individual text window content. I could work on that part already while you what ever else needs to be done.l
[19.12.2017 16:07:26] Laz: Incorrect.
[19.12.2017 16:08:07] Laz: I told you I made it like a framework. There is a cfg file called laz_help.cfg that uses this system. Like an ini, you have a section then everything below that is written in the help command's contents.
[19.12.2017 16:09:14] Karlotta Engelbrecher: Aaaaannnd... ? I could work on "what is below" so you'd just need to copy paste it afterwards.
[19.12.2017 16:09:25] Laz: I already put that in there?
[19.12.2017 16:09:41] Laz: Just write stuff in your thread to C+P
[19.12.2017 16:09:45] Karlotta Engelbrecher: Help system in text window?
[19.12.2017 16:11:58] Karlotta Engelbrecher: If I understood you correctly you want to put the help system in windows like what you arleady did for the laws. To help speed that part up I could put the code parts necessary for formating into the text.
[19.12.2017 16:15:16] Laz: Found the template:
FactionName Laws
Diplomacy:
KoS:
- Liberty Rouges
- Blood Dragons
- Nomads
Behaviour:
The following actions are considered illegal:
- Going into restricted areas (list them here)
- Transporting Contraband
- Insulting Officers… you get the idea. Fill in a small list of actions that are illegal. Keep it small.
Cargo:
The following items are illegal:
- Caramine
- Nox
- Human Organs*
Etc
*Can be carried by Cryer. (You get the idea)
Technology:
The following items and equipment are illegal
JUmpdrives
Cloaks
Nomad Guns
YOU GET THE IDEA
[19.12.2017 16:15:31] Laz: Obv meant to be expanded upon.
[19.12.2017 16:15:37] Laz: It's just a format.
[19.12.2017 16:16:07] Laz: If I understood you correctly you want to put the help system in windows like what you arleady did for the laws. To help speed that part up I could put the code parts necessary for formating into the text.The function is written completely different, and I need to setup a more efficient standard.
[19.12.2017 16:16:55] Karlotta Engelbrecher: urg
[19.12.2017 16:16:57] Karlotta Engelbrecher: whatever
[19.12.2017 16:17:08] Karlotta Engelbrecher: Did you already start a thread for the laws somewhere?
[19.12.2017 16:17:15] Karlotta Engelbrecher: or do you want me to make one?
[19.12.2017 16:17:56] Laz: No need. Just PM various gov members.
[19.12.2017 16:18:02] Laz: I only know a few
[19.12.2017 16:18:08] Laz: which is why I've only got a few done.
[19.12.2017 16:18:19] Laz: Liberty was one I did myself, which is why it looks nothing like that.
[19.12.2017 16:18:23] Karlotta Engelbrecher: Well it's more effiicnet to make a thread that all gov members can see
[19.12.2017 16:19:13] Laz: Meh. No need then. I'll get someone to drop something in the OFL chat
[19.12.2017 16:22:00] Karlotta Engelbrecher: So you said you wanted help for the laws but then when it becomes public you say you dont need it. Right.
[19.12.2017 16:22:50] Laz: I don't need help, you offered it.
[19.12.2017 16:23:08] Laz: I would rather keep things behind closed doors until I know what I create is going into the game.
[19.12.2017 16:23:53] Karlotta Engelbrecher: And when will you know that?
[19.12.2017 16:26:25] Karlotta Engelbrecher: No offence but planning the more necessary and easy thing to do (dumping useful text on the screen) after the less necessary and harder thing to to (your contraband plugin) is really contra-productive here.
[19.12.2017 16:28:10] Laz: On the contrary, since my plugin is a custom dll, and not a modification, like my /givecasht command, it would go through this long process regardless. This way I am making more content in one patch rather than loads of little ones over a longer period.
[19.12.2017 16:28:43] Laz: I have loads of other ideas that I'm holding off doing since they would take a very long time.
[19.12.2017 16:28:53] Laz: The process is slow more than one reason.
[19.12.2017 16:29:52 | Edited 16:30:15] Karlotta Engelbrecher: So its going to be months until any of this is out, because of that?
[19.12.2017 16:30:47] Karlotta Engelbrecher: Cant you make several releases of hte same plugin instead?
[19.12.2017 16:32:04] Laz: The same plugin is not in the game, and for me to upload it now would require me to undo work.
[19.12.2017 16:32:31] Laz: I don't see why you cannot be patient and wait for things to run their natural course.
[19.12.2017 16:35:30] Karlotta Engelbrecher: Because it should take 1 week for someone with basic editting knowledge of existing FLHook commands to make such a help system. And it's not been done 7 months after I wrote the text for the whole system, and it's not been done in 9 years of mod history, and population is between 20 and 60 players now. Because it looks as if it's going to be faster to learn FLHook from scratch and do everything myself than to do what you're describing. And because even if I did the whole thing myself, people will still find excuses not to implement it.
[19.12.2017 16:37:20] Laz: I was not aware that I've spent 7 months learning FLHook.
[19.12.2017 16:37:36] Karlotta Engelbrecher: strawman
[19.12.2017 16:40:31] Laz: I am doing things as fast as I can, and am very busy irl. I, at least from my perspective, shouldn't be getting flak for going out of my way to learn something difficult in order to help people.
[19.12.2017 16:43:46 | Edited 16:46:08] Karlotta Engelbrecher: But that's the thing... you're not doing it as fast as you can. You're doing it slower, much slower than necessary. And I'm not criticizing you for doing it, I'm criticizing you for SAYING you're doing it, while you'Re actually NOT doing. If people had said straight out "we're not doing it", I'd have done it even if it had taken me much longer than them.
[19.12.2017 16:45:00] Karlotta Engelbrecher: So whatever. If this won't be done by anyone withing hte next month, I may aswell learn flhook nad do it myself. I'd already have done it if people had been honest.
[19.12.2017 16:46:53] Karlotta Engelbrecher: Holy crap, even the time spent arguing about it would probably have been enough to do it for someone who already knows flhook
[19.12.2017 16:50:34] Laz: If you think you can do it faster than me and get it into the game, go ahead.
[19.12.2017 16:51:42] Karlotta Engelbrecher: Its' not that I CAN do it faster. Its slower for me to do it because I have to learn stuff you and others already know.
[19.12.2017 16:52:40] Karlotta Engelbrecher: And I wont get it into the game anyway, because people have been finding every conceivable excuse not to put it in already.
[19.12.2017 16:54:15] Karlotta Engelbrecher: But if that's how its gotta be... ok man.
In the second one you sent Dino to ask for the texts again, obviously embarrassed because I was right and finished the Help System on my own, just like I had predicted.
I gave permission again, but yeah, at the end, when Dino ask for my stuff and says he isnt going to help improve it further by helping with the rules and says he wasnt going to put "hours" into this after I spent months making it without any help from you guys and you're pretty much just taking it to put your name on it (The Help System in the nav map was already completely finished and posted on the fourm), yes, I got annoyed.
[03.03.2018 00:38:30] Dino: Hey, thanks for adding me!
[03.03.2018 00:40:15] Dino: So, as you probably already know, Laz was fixing the FLHook command system that would allow implementation of longer text in-game, which would be perfect to implement a sort of FLHook Help system, pretty much what you suggested.
[03.03.2018 00:41:41] Dino: He's pretty much in a final stages of testing the thing, and what would we need next is some actual text that would be added in-game. To save our time, I decided to reach you out and ask if you'd agree to use your Help System as a template.
[03.03.2018 00:42:29] Dino: It is done pretty nicely, and it would save us hours of work. Of course, you'd get credits for it.
[03.03.2018 00:47:12] Karlotta Engelbrecher: Sorry... I'm not familitar with the devteam structure. You're part of hte dev team?
[03.03.2018 00:47:37] Karlotta Engelbrecher: Who would be responsible for something liek this in the dev team?
[03.03.2018 00:49:24] Dino: I'm not part of the dev team, I'm a member of Discovery Freelancer Tutorials team. We're simply group of people that wants to make something good for the community and make ideas like this happen.
[03.03.2018 00:50:17] Karlotta Engelbrecher: And who in the dev team would be responsible for something like this?
[03.03.2018 00:50:41] Karlotta Engelbrecher: I wrote about it to both Teerin and Croft, after which both resigned
[03.03.2018 00:50:52] Karlotta Engelbrecher: so do you know who's responsible now?
[03.03.2018 00:51:37] Dino: No, I don't know.
[03.03.2018 00:53:36] Karlotta Engelbrecher: I guess I'll ask the new lead dev then. The thing is... everything is already finished in hte form of navmap and infocards. It's exported into dll files, and all it takes to put in the mod now is 1 dev to import he dlls.
[03.03.2018 00:54:03] Karlotta Engelbrecher: I kind of gave plenty of chances to do this before. None were taken, until after I did everything by myself
[03.03.2018 00:54:55] Karlotta Engelbrecher: So... just to ask... would you be taking EVERY text I prepared, or only the first 1 third and not the rest?
[03.03.2018 00:55:17] Dino: Well, where you did not succeed, perhaps we will? We'l still continue working on it, so your text would be of great help.
[03.03.2018 00:55:21] Karlotta Engelbrecher: Because if you wont adapt everything, the only reasonalbe thing to do is to just import those dlls I made
[03.03.2018 00:55:36] Dino: We'd use all of them, perhaps with slight updates and edits.
[03.03.2018 00:55:46] Karlotta Engelbrecher: Dude... I finished everything already. All of you had PLENTY of time to help, but you chose not to
[03.03.2018 00:56:19] Karlotta Engelbrecher: not AFTER I finished everything, people get all busy, except when it comes to putting what I finished into hte mod as is
[03.03.2018 00:56:35] Karlotta Engelbrecher: So I'll ask Xalrog first. Havent talked to him yet
[03.03.2018 00:57:10] Dino: Alright. In the meantime, do you mind if we use your text?
[03.03.2018 00:57:18] Dino: While giving all credits for it to you, of course...
[03.03.2018 00:58:10] Karlotta Engelbrecher: Sure go ahead. But the rules part hasnt been signed off by admins yet. But I think he rules part is one of hte most important. Maybe you could start adapting the rules part first, since thats what changes the most frequently
[03.03.2018 00:58:41] Karlotta Engelbrecher: But tbh the easiest thing to do would be to just get the devs to stick the finished thing as is into hte mod
[03.03.2018 00:59:36] Karlotta Engelbrecher: Laz aid something about Laws plugin. What's become of that?
[03.03.2018 01:00:47] Dino: It's pretty much done, and we prepared the summary on each House Law. You can check video he posted on forums, its pretty nice.
[03.03.2018 01:01:14] Dino: As for the texts, thank you. Sometimes, the easiest thing is actually the hardest, and vice versa, and devs are odd birds.
[03.03.2018 01:01:25] Dino: So, we'l just continue with our work for now...
[03.03.2018 01:03:08] Dino: If you want to get some update on our work, you can join Angels discord chat. All stuff we're working on are pretty much public, so you'l be able to see everything there
[03.03.2018 01:06:40] Karlotta Engelbrecher: I just wrote a pm to Xalrog asking him if he's ready to import it as a system to the map. That would be easiest.
[03.03.2018 01:07:48] Dino: https://discord.gg/ERP6Cq
[03.03.2018 01:07:52] Dino: Here's the invite link.
[03.03.2018 01:08:04] Karlotta Engelbrecher: I dont really use discord
[03.03.2018 01:08:05] Dino: Yeah, that would be easiest. Hope you'l have more luck with him.
[03.03.2018 01:08:16] Karlotta Engelbrecher: maybe I'll install it on my other computer on sunday or monday
[03.03.2018 01:09:00] Karlotta Engelbrecher: If I were you I'd concentrate the rules and laws for the flhook command. the other stuff doesnt really change within mod updates anyway
[03.03.2018 01:09:05] Karlotta Engelbrecher: plus its already done
[03.03.2018 01:09:15] Dino: Cool, you're welcome in our chat, some input from senior players is always welcome. And perhaps, we can together figure out how to finally implement this Help system.
[03.03.2018 01:09:39] Karlotta Engelbrecher: you may want to help encourage the admisn to reform the rules the way I did in the "rules presentatio" thread
[03.03.2018 01:09:52] Karlotta Engelbrecher: The most useful thing you could do is to all support that effort right now
[03.03.2018 01:10:01] Dino: The House Laws are already prepared, I'm sure Laz will have them ready to implement within days. Tho, we're at same problems as you are, then.
[03.03.2018 01:10:45] Dino: We're doing that, by trying to push Laz's FLHook system into game. Perhaps it'l be more welcomed, perhaps they'l see it as more efficient, or whatever. If there's a chance it will be implemented, we'l try to do so.
[03.03.2018 01:11:06] Dino: As the command simply allows you to throw larger chunks of text in the game. So, it could be used for anything.
[03.03.2018 01:11:10] Karlotta Engelbrecher: If you want to help with anything, the most important thing would be to support this: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...tid=158145
[03.03.2018 01:11:14] Dino: Help system, Laws, Rules, whatever really.
[03.03.2018 01:12:14] Karlotta Engelbrecher: The thing is for hte help system, there are now three times more topics than in he original one. That makes 3 times more flhook commands. It's just easier to oversee in the map instead of flhook at this point
[03.03.2018 01:13:59] Karlotta Engelbrecher: So ll of you, kindly try to get the admins to reform the rules as presneted in that link
[03.03.2018 01:14:10] Karlotta Engelbrecher: thats needed to move forward
[03.03.2018 01:18:52] Dino: The rules have been same for ages, and the reform is a hard goal to achieve. It would require input frrom much more community members, and days of discussing the perfect changes and how they should be implemented. We went with the most simple stuff, and that's making the game easier for the new players. Perhaps admins/devs will not see it as drastic change, but something that will be welcomed in the game as it will not be intrusive in any way, just make the game more richer. Laz has already tested everything on his private server, and has full support of Alex.
[03.03.2018 01:19:22] Dino: His /givecasht has already been implemented to the game. Getting this implemented should not be much of a trouble.
[03.03.2018 01:19:34] Karlotta Engelbrecher: ok listen
[03.03.2018 01:20:02] Karlotta Engelbrecher: the only way I was able to make the texts for hte help system is to ignore stupid BS like you said just now
[03.03.2018 01:20:43] Karlotta Engelbrecher: The rules have NOT been updated often, they are NOT optibmal atm, and I spent a month writing them as good as possilbe
[03.03.2018 01:20:56] Karlotta Engelbrecher: All you need to do is read them, at this point
[03.03.2018 01:21:24] Karlotta Engelbrecher: and if you're able to understand anything you read, you'd be able to see that there's not more real work required after what Id did
[03.03.2018 01:21:35] Karlotta Engelbrecher: so if you'Re not even able to do htat, stop talking to me right now
[03.03.2018 01:22:05] Karlotta Engelbrecher: Because I had to spend months doing this on my own, with ZERO help from people like you
[03.03.2018 01:22:23] Karlotta Engelbrecher: now after I did it, you come here and ask me "can we have your stuff"
[03.03.2018 01:22:37] Karlotta Engelbrecher: You are NO help
[03.03.2018 01:22:50] Karlotta Engelbrecher: All you do is WASTE MORE TIME AFTER I FINISJED IT
[03.03.2018 01:23:37] Karlotta Engelbrecher: So if you REALLY wanted to help, you'd get off your ass and help get the rules reform through, at least, instead of attempting to take credit for stuff that you did NOTHING to help with
[03.03.2018 01:23:48] Karlotta Engelbrecher: When you had ALL THE TIME IN HTE WORLD to do ANYTHING to help
[03.03.2018 01:24:33] Karlotta Engelbrecher: So either het off your arse or do something REALLY constructive, or stop wasting even more time attempting to take credit for something you did NOTHING to help with, even though you could have
[03.03.2018 01:24:52] Karlotta Engelbrecher: Sorry, but I'm sick and tiredo the utter stupidity of this community
[03.03.2018 01:25:08] Karlotta Engelbrecher: I'm going to log off skype now
[03.03.2018 01:25:25] Karlotta Engelbrecher: either do something REALLY helpful and help get that rules reform through, or stop wasting my time.
[03.03.2018 01:25:29] Dino: Hey, I just wanted to ask if I could use your texts for my project. While I'm at it, I'm making tutorial on trading and smuggling. I'm trying to do my part, but if you think I'l throw hours of work in it, then you're wrong, sorry.
[03.03.2018 01:25:48] Karlotta Engelbrecher: bye
[03.03.2018 01:25:56] Dino: If you think that's a waste of time, then fine.
Unfortunately you decided to waste both our times even more by making the helpmenu (with has all the problems I listed earlier) just so you could have your name on my idea, and by getting something far more useful removed.
(07-09-2018, 03:57 PM)Karlotta Wrote: In the second one you sent Dino to ask for the texts again, obviously embarrassed because I was right and finished the Help System on my own, just like I had predicted.
Actually I blocked you because you're an unpleasant human being to deal with. I decided in the end doing things myself was just easier. But sure believe what you want to, each to their own.
(07-09-2018, 03:57 PM)Karlotta Wrote: In the second one you sent Dino to ask for the texts again, obviously embarrassed because I was right and finished the Help System on my own, just like I had predicted.
Actually I blocked you because you're an unpleasant human being to deal with. I decided in the end doing things myself was just easier. But sure believe what you want to, each to their own.
I guess you spread misinformation about me and make the mod worse again for the same reason.