(10-30-2012, 06:21 PM)massdriver Wrote: -> cap vs cap - several minutes, almost no chance to escape if caught.
-> snub vs snub - may not end for hours and without any ship destroyed.
BECAUSE
cap guns were introduced by developers from scratch without altering snub guns.
snubs arent efficient thats why there's cap spam as you can kill faster someone in cap vs cap event rather than snub vs snub
Exactly.
(10-30-2012, 06:03 PM)Govedo13 Wrote: You cannot proper balance the capital ships if you allow their spam like now.
<skipped snubcraft part>
Ship prices need to go 50% up as well. Small dead penalty for all ships 1 to 10% random generated of its NPC dealer value would be nice. But again before fining one battleship user 30-50m you better make sure the said cap ship have proper guns not like the jokes now.
Well, 10% from ship price, if we exclude armor and include guns and shields, is a fair deal in case of capital ships, if we rebalance them to reflect their extreme operating costs. At same time, if you include armors into equation, it rises few problems.
Namely, cau8's become useless compared to 4.5 times cheaper cau6s, and forcing people to pay 100-150 millions per death will 1) promote EVE-like environment 2) will require capital ships to be extremely strong, to reflect 15-30 times maintenance costs of a fighter. Not just stronger then they're now. Will also bring a great disbalance between ship classes that are relying on Capital Armors, be it transport, gunboat or battleship. By no way a cau8 gunboat operating costs should be comparable to that of a cau6 battleship.
Imho, putting armors into equation is a NO.
EDIT: another option might be rebalancing caus according to their capability... but that might create problems in balance between same ship classes. Should somewhat "richer" ship of same class have 100% victory chance due to 4 times higher hull? Imho - no. Yet, that also comes with a greater cost...
Well, might be worth thinking about it. Any thoughts?
(10-30-2012, 04:47 AM)Blodo Wrote: Sadly, a fighter gun "across the board" speed increase would make such weapons like 2.00 1k+ damage guns incredibly OP (never mind the codenames). "Reduce the damage then" you might say?Means rebalancing a ton of guns, and then also at the same time (lets say we decided to up the speed by some 200ms) a 950ms flashpoint barrage would murder fighters in less than 5 minutes
No, don't reduce the damage. It'll affect too much stats and too much scenarios, like fighter swarm efficiency vs gbs, etc. Projectile speeds only.
As for fighter fights lasting up to 5-10 minutes depending on skills, that's exactly what I'm aiming for with original proposal - making them newbie friendly. The speed increase across the board will definitely make people who do not train more useful in a group fight. Combine that with more powerful then they're now, but also helluva more expensive to maintain capital ships
That's also why I proposed a difference in death penalties in form of adjustments to "4 hour" rule in OP in addition to great difference in operating costs. Cheaper to operate and more fragile fighters will require way less time to "respawn". (2 hours vs 4 hours for Battleships and cruisers, or 3 hours for gunboats and transports. Numbers are just an example)
And don't get me wrong here - the basis of proposed rebalance is in making fighters newbie friendly, not in nerfing capital ships. Capital ships will actually become more combat efficient then they're now, to reflect their greatly increased maintenance costs. (like Govedo pointed out)
What makes a difference between a fighter and a capship? As a co-leader of a "faction" that, at some point, incorporated alot of members that barely spoke english, have no idea about the basics of the fight and were called into one of Fleet Battles in TX 3-4 days after their arrival on server - I have quite a large experience in this field.
You can, basically, put someone like that in a capship, give him the "basic course", tell him to stick together and he.will.manage. Yes, he's still a noob, he still doesnt know many things, he will still do some stupid mistake if you won't babysit him in TeamSpeak.
BUT - He doesnt need weeks of training in Connecticut to be able to do damage to enemy fighters equal to 20% of what PROs do. He doesn't need to keep visiting conn to maintain his skills. The difference between newbie and pro capital ships is way, waaaay lower then between newbie and pro fighter. The distance between those is just incomparable.
Quote:Truth be told, the current fighter weapon speeds are quite all right, as are fighter guns in general.
They're not, as mentioned above. They're too heavily skill based. And then people wonder "Why all indies fly caps".
I'm one of those "capwhores" that dropped fighters long time ago. I just felt so exhausted after the long fight, that I had zero satisfaction from the game. Plus constant trainings to keep myself in touch. Dropped fighters on May 2011. And I'm definitely not the only one like that.
Quote:Another issue with total rebalances is that sweeping changes tend to break a lot of things and are generally terrible to manage, so I'd rather have small but significant changes. Like perhaps removing bot/bat trading... somehow. That change alone guarantees a significant reduction in fighter group fight times, since it will no longer be required to go through the whole group's bots to take out one guy. It's also easy to reverse and applies to everything equally without number bias or other errors...
Why reduce/remove possibilities of teamwork (especially in capfights, where bot transfer is essential, and does not make things to last over 10 minutes) instead of making things go faster then they currently go? Making all ships deadlier through projectile speed increase (with corresponding tweaks in several cases, like with bombers, light vs heavy battleship balance, etc), with corresponding maintenance costs that reflect their combat efficiency (still, in non-linear way, I guess) is a good way to create environment where you can actually balance ships according to their class and role (and reduce/increase their deadliness based on their costs, Lore (Scylla is a great example of lore-friendly cruiser.) and other things)
