(02-24-2014, 01:33 PM)Treewyrm Wrote: Over the years it had become quite clear to me that when these big threads comes up there is some distortion too, a bound disparity between what's been said publicly for public and what being intended privately, so I read more than public posts and replies, Gytrash. But I digress, it's really not my mess to participate and I never had a role in decision-making related to the origin of this mess. I merely point out at exaggerated rationales being made, dragging over and over, but seldom really having much to do with what's going on.
As someone who does not have the luxury of being in the Dev chat and reading what is said in private all I know from Devs is what is publicly stated. What has been stated is this
"Because of the actions of some indies, we are going to retcon every bit of Zoner lore made since .82 that includes battleships in any way and make them all Transports. This is a decision that has been made without consulting the Official factions or anyone who is actually currently active in leading the Zoner community.
That's what I see. That's what I have a problem with.
That and the wierdness of the vote. Count the votes manually and you see that without the doublevotes there is actually a majority for keeping zoner capships the way they are, this is a <50% majority. So I'm thinking that the forums derped up and nobody really caught it.
(02-24-2014, 01:33 PM)Treewyrm Wrote: Speaking of bogeymen, rationales and actual "real" threats, I have a question if you care to answer: would you like nomad indies to have capital ships without any other adjustments (ID or otherwise) being made?
(02-24-2014, 01:33 PM)Treewyrm Wrote: One more thing to add, no doubt this one will be dragged over times and times again, parts ripped out of context and waved around like a vilifying poster against me, as some are so eager to separate by "with us or against us", evidenced by misdirected anger and insults thrown at me personally and completely bogus accusatory. But here is something I have to say from my experience here. In the Omicrons area I easily work together with other factions as a developer, namely Order and Core. We brainstorm ideas, together write infocards, draw map sketches, and generally really go along as community members despite that inRP more or less our main characters are mortal enemies "sworn" to eradicate each other and we are very much eager to pew each other into oblivion (it is a bit more complex than that, but on the surface that's the case). But there is no drama and I dare you to find any big drama between us over the last years. The "zonerzonerzoner" phenomenon had already became memetic in this community, a seasonal drama.
The problem is this. For a long time nobody has really consulted Zoners when changes are being made to the faction. It's been a constant thread in every Zoner chat among almost all of the Zoners that I know that
"We can't influence what the Devs do to our faction."
So among the Zoner community there is this feeling that no matter what we say. I mean, even when I speak to Devs and point out how it's entirely likely for the Zoners to have grown some in twenty years all the Devs say is
"No you are Zoners, your infocards say this"
and when I say
"The infocards also say that Bretonia is afraid of attacking Freeport One"
Then the Devs quickly say
"Those infocards are old and you can't base all your RP of things being the same now as they were then"
THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY!
(02-24-2014, 01:33 PM)Treewyrm Wrote: So comparatively when I tried to ask some zoner folks here about what they'd like it wasn't a wishlist, weren't suggestions, wasn't a collective brainstorm, it was obnoxious and demeanour attitude in response. I was honestly appalled.
Who did you ask? It wasn't me, nor was it the Leader of the Phoenix, the leader of the OSI or the leader of the TAZ, or any of the ranking members.
I know this because I speak to them. Tell me who you spoke to? Was it Tel? Because I can tell you that you can't expect him to be the most reasonable of Zoners.
Here's a Zoner wishlist, it contains two things at the moment
Don't take away our caps and retcon our RP
Please talk to us and be willing to reach a compromise.
That's about it at the moment. Hell, a Dev saying that the Zoners can possibly have grown in twenty years and advanced is something that we've never heard. "Zoners must remain at the same size as they were at Vanilla. And everybody else can grow as they please"
Is what we keep hearing. And it's made us a bit bitter. Of course, if you want to talk to the Zoners about the future and current lore and how to make it all wokr I'd be more than happy to drag you into the chat.
(02-24-2014, 01:33 PM)Treewyrm Wrote: And I think that's an indicator of a much deeper problem that requires something other than rage, whining and bogeymen, it requires reflection, taking a good look at what you do, how you do it and what are the results of your endeavours. May be so that you, and others preaching that chorus, voiced so loudly, so aggressively for the past years that many associate all this with toxic behaviour, and rightfully so. Take a step back, have a deep breath in and out, and have a few hours of retrospect. But it would surprise me none if this reply post of mine fell on deaf ears. I'd like to be surprised, for once. Care trying?
Something is rotten in the state of Zoners.
Yes, there is something rotten in the state of the Zoners. At the moment it's apathy.
We try to talk to the devs...
Zoners cannot grow. Shut down
We try to police our capships when every faction is making Zoner alts to use our ships for jumpships.
That's restricting indie rights. Shut down
We try to keep our capships and years of established RP
It's already been decided, we talked to nobody about this and every official faction opposes it. But we are going ahead anyway. Shut down
The problem is that the Devs seem extremely unwilling to allow the Zoners to do anything with their faction. At least with infocards and set in stone lore. I was a couple of years back planning on adding some biodomes to my station inRP and some more living space. Then advertising for refugees. I spoke to a dev about whether or not I could get the model of Freeport XV changed to reflect that.
"No"
"No?"
"No. Never. We aren't changing that model."