(11-11-2016, 09:13 PM)Swallow Wrote: Warning, typos and mistakes are ahead. Writing from my phone.
If you look at the high-tech obnect, you will find:
1. Materials. Raw materials, which, obviously are to be gathered, and the bigger your object, the more of that you need.
2. Material technology. Raw materials are nlt simply cut, molten, glued together to make a detail. There is a huge variety of machining, pressing, forging techniques that are REQUIRED to make a detail with NEEDED properties. Drilling an inch hole is one thing, but try to make a 10 inch with a good precision.
3. Detail construction. Basically, whenever a detail is getting damaged, especially if it is an important detail that works under load, the only way is to recycle it. You can not fix it, like many other things that got damaged even slightly.
4. Detail arrangement. Basically what people understand under a "blueprint". Just have to say that construction is described by drafts (BPs), documentation, which includes the manufacturing, the assembly, the maintenence and so on and so forth. The "Blueprint" part could be imagined in a pile of thick journals, say, a meter tall when put one on another, when it comes to something like a battleship. Could be more. Transcontinental aircrafts consist of 1-2 million of details. Considering that future spaceships are to be more complex, I could only guess that things will get worse.
5. Manufacturing. There are good examples of RL tech that once being disassembled could not be assembled back without knowing the manufacturing technology. You just can not without damaging the object.
6. Resistance. Statical and dynamical loads, forces, torques. Take a wrong material, or wrong shaped detil and it will serve less than its original counterpart. If it will work at all and won't explode damaging surrounding stuff with shards. As for dynamical loads - cracks, they tend to grow, and do so until all of sudden things get really bad.
7. Maintenece. It takes time, it takes human power, it takes credits. If you don't know how to maintain you ship (the biger - the worse) it will eventually let you know when something brakes down.
8. Electronics. When damaged is to be recycled. You have your hull without brains, you can put new ones, but how would you write the software that is recognized by systems and that is working by correct algorhythms?
9. Something else that didn't cross my mind.
All in all, to develop something like a battleship from scratch it'd take centuries of experience, billions of credits for expensive research, modeling, absolutely expensive tools and facilities (And you can not assemble something big without precisely positioned mounts), labour, fails, tests, improvements, and all over again. The best you can do is:
1. Take damaged hull apart.
2. Make a frame of cheap modules, bought from dealer, that are produced on facilities and are open to market.
3. Slap hull parts over the frame.
4. Waste time, money, labour and end up with something like Bustard: huge but weak and powerless. Something that is far from being of a state of art like warships.
5. Try to sell it for ridiculous price (like Bustard) so yoiu could earn at least enough to cover expenses.
6. ???
7. Profit? No. No profit.
The same applies to anything but, say, racing vessels or something really tiny. Fighters are no, they are a state of art. You can not do a state of art unless you are a corporation with decades or centuries of experience and possess billions for expencive facilities to produce and assemble stuff.
What a group of junker enthusiasts is good for? They possibly could make some custom racers or utility ships. Again, buying frame and modules, because you are very unlikely to salvage something that dies in space (it does so violently), and slapping over hull parts, fins, etc.
This is my input on this matter. I have used some tiny bit of my studying knoledge here.
That contains some interesting points, however, it is also very much beyond the level of knowledge and vocabulary I could provide to make use of it inRP. While in-depth knowledge about stuff you're RPing about is always a good thing, I don't want to make a science about things that are supposed to bring not only the participants but also myself fun. For example, I'm already struggling with the adaption of the nomad behavior for the Vagrants. In that specific case I'm lacking the colorful vocabulary I'd need to make my Vagrant-stuff looking less... human-ish. On a more subjective point of view, I don't know many people that enjoy reading long walls of gibberish. In an abstract way, the same would count for making the blueprints. Yes, I will definitely make it as professionell as it is possible to me. I think I have especially a hand for the graphical stuff, as I like to do pixel-art-ish graphics for what I have in mind.
Aside from all that, I have a feeling of those things being completely different or at least easier in a dystopian future at least 1000 years in the future, if not even more. Let's not forget about two things that are part of the game: 1. You can repair your ships at any station. 2. Nano-Bots. The latter is definitely part of the roleplay-environment, although people can argue about the instant-repair mechanic behind it, with both things.
Nevertheless, thanks for typing all that, Swallol. It was giving me some pushes in alternate directions, however I don't know yet how to implement the things I came up with during the spontan brainstorming.
(11-11-2016, 09:23 PM)Antonio Wrote: The RP itself is refreshing and the concept is pretty nice, add a ton of quality time invested into it and you get a nice end product.
I do have one thing to add, regarding usage of scrapped parts. The only issue I have with it, and the entire roleplay in general, is that I'm hoping you won't use those scrapped parts to reconstruct the ships and say, sell them on the black market, or worse - directly give it to a hostile faction (for example, salvaging a few Lynxes and giving them to Auxesia). Many people tried that in the past (not by salvaging), and it always received a lot of flak, especially from the faction whose tech is being given away. Here's why.
Player ships are not inRP assets. Otherwise Hessians would be a top military force with 30+ Jorms, Bretonia and Liberty would crush Gallia because of the playerbase advantage they have, etc. When you salvage those assets and turn them into inRP ones, a problem arises. A problem of mixing up apples and oranges, one is an ooRP thing while the other is inRP thing. On top of that, players with less PvP skill usually die much more often than aces so they're contributing to the salvaging part impactfully more. If you for example salvage a lot of Lynx parts from people that got bluemessaged (using the same example for the sake of simplicity), and you combine them into a functioning ship and sell it to the Navy or Auxesia, you can see why GRN would get angry.
Now I know you didn't do it yet, but just a friendly heads up. Or maybe I'm missing the entire point here and I'm horribly wrong, if that's the case please correct me. All in all, keep up the good work.
I don't agree with some points here. Who is in the position to tell what is inRP and what not? If GRN| (official) loses five Valors in Magellan, is that suddenly considered as "never happened"? I think that's a cheap way of ignoring the results of one's own actions. We basically had a similar discussion on this topic already in another thread, five months ago, where you made the statement "it's just a blue". That's not always the case, and on this, I guess there will never be a unity in the community. Some will say "It's just a blue without consequences" while others will say "It's an RP server and every action, from giving a single shot at something up to destroying a capital ship of an official faction are taking place in this roleplay-environment", and I'm one that shares the latter opinion. Now that hasn't to be neccessarily good or bad, but it's different, and most people that answered to this concept thread during the day before my first response were basically right with "You can't make everyone happy." - That's basically with everything you do, be it on the forum or ingame. Some people will insist on some SRPs being unjustified or beyond reasonable logic, while others will say it's okay, because even with such a massive bunch of known lore, Freelancer is still in a far away future, in a dystopy, where people are thousands-of-blues-surviving-badasses or underdogs. There is so much interpretation, imagination, representation and so much lacking clarity about what is inRP and what not. People ask if IDs are inRP. People ask if Junkers can pirate in Omega-3. People have totally differen opinions on how many people work on a ships of different sizes. Look up the factions that actually wrote how many people usually operate a single gunboat, and then look at the model, how many windows or seats it has in the cockpit. There is so many things just open for interpretation for the players, and so it totally doesn't matter whether it's just a blue or more. I see nothing to gain from an argument about that, aside from toxic people joining and doing what they can the best.
That's basically the point where I will definitely piss of people by saying "Everything you do ingame can be considered inRP, no matter if you're official or not", because everything can be picked up ingame and the forum and used as an opportunity to roleplay around it. So here I take the debris of any ships and gather them. That includes even guys that sundive/planetdive/self-mine close to me. It, however, will not contain debris caused during the Re-engaging times of events or NPC debris.
To answer your concern, however: What do you think will a freelancing group of people do with quasi-stolen technology? They are vultures, like Junkers, and that kind of inRP-work simply contains the theft of debris - as the debris where someones belonging before. That doesn't leave many opportunities open, don't you think? Option one would be contacting the owner/faction and make a deal for returning the stuff. That's what happened with Auxesia. And to be frank, I don't care whether the reasoning behind that decision was more because of inRP or because of ooRP concerns of having other people playing around with one's toys. As long as an inRP action causes inRP results, that's totally okay. Will GRN| be mad about stolen Lynxes? Yes, inRP in any case. OoRP? Welp, it's not like anyone should care about that kind of attitude. It's a game. You may can lead a faction, but the stuff isn't your stuff. There is only so much you can limit ingame, and one shouldn't limit everything. If Scyllas were still limited to SRPs, Lolberty wouldn't have much to do ingame.
However! Just as a fair reminder here: People don't need to use my concept's offer to get a ship of a foreign faction. I only offer a ramp of explanation here. You don't need to SRP a Freelancer Lynx. A backstory to it would be nice, yes, but it doesn't have to be.
Now that I think about it, I'm curious how many people in Aoi have authentic RP-explanations of the ships their use. I know there are undoubtly some of them, but I'm curious if all of them are supported with a background. I'm talking only about the ships, not the characters, as many characters have dots, colons and exclamation marks in their names.
Another thing to keep in mind: IDs have certain technerfs with certain ships. I doubt Auxesia has Gallic Tech in their ID. I think the people using this offer will mostly regulate themselves with what they want to buy and what ID they use with it.