Paladin Balance Discussion

[mjolnir]

It's the relation between the numbers that matters, capship have HUGE steering power, but also HUGE angular inertia.

Here are the relations that matter:

The 3 max turning speed numbers come from datastorm ones by dividing steering torque by angular drag, the 3 turning responses come from dividing steering torque by rotation inertia.


Paladin (mass, 3 times max turning speed (higher = better), 3 times turning response (higher = better)):

150 1.2561 1.2561 1.3559 6.78 6.78 22.86

Chimaera
150 1.1707 1.1707 1.2083 5.71 5.71 7.63

Greyhound
150 1.1842 1.1842 1.1667 9.00 9.00 7.78

Gladiator
150 1.2317 1.2317 1.3433 6.31 6.31 22.50

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Just tested Paladin against Greyhound, Gladiator, and Chimaera.

Paladin vs. Greyhound - 1:0 for Paladin, with some problems, but I made the Greyhound run

Paladin vs. Gladiator - 1:0 for Paladin, went quite easily, may be because pilot of the Gladiator was flying it the first time, might need testing again

Paladin vs. Chimaera - 1:0 for Chimaera. This is where it fails, HFs are supposed to counter VHFs, especially the Paladin was made to counter Chimaeras, which outturn Templars. Sadly it fails at its purpose, Chimaera is equally agile, while having more firepower, armor, and being HF sized.

Paladin was made as a response to superior Chimaera, thats what I was told. Instead, Chimaeras are superior not only to Templars, but also the new Paladin.

You may persuade me that its balanced against other HFs, and that it is like any other HF, but then there is something wrong with Chimaera. Either the Paladin is bad, and needs some kind of boost, or the Chimaera is too good.

This basically shows that Paladin is fine.

For Chimaera comparison check the GC VHF thread. Chimaera is by far the slowest of all Kusari VHFs. When even BAF members tell me it's fine then it might actually be a bit too bad, since it's simply not normal to say of enemy ships that they are fine.

Also 1vs1 HF has rather hard time against any VHF, tested many times both on test server and on RP one. Most funny part was when all corsairs suddenly switched to Gladiators as 4.85 came out, so I undocked my Titan and went for 1vs1 training.... and killed everyone without problem. Then some of them switched to Titan, and suddenly I even lost.

If you really want to back search about the reason Paladin was made, then it was not to counter Chimaera 1vs1. But to act as fast support in fleet battles with heavier firepower than Hussar. That said this was based on 4.84 assumptions, where 90% of all Templar kills were to mines, now this doesn't happen any more.

Now Chimaera will mostly win vs Templar 1vs1, but in 2vs2 or bigger it's actually the other way". The heavy armor, faster dodging and "all in front" shape makes it as hard to hit Templar from Chimaera (with 600m/s guns) in big fight as it is to hit Chimaera from Templar (with 700 m/s guns), but then Templar has 3k more armor.

I also remember watching some BAF vs CR fights, now when CR all aimed on OC Sabres that came by, those Sabres died. When they aimed on BAF Templars they simply did too little (if any) damage. On the other hand if you do Titan vs Templar group fights it's basically very equal, due to both ships having hard to hit shapes and good dodging.

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Anyway Paladin is at miminum average HF. HFs are hardly simple to use fighters, basically if you can fly LF (= actually kill someone with it) you'll love a HF as it gives you a bit extra firepower with similar handling. If you try to fly HF as a VHF you will fail.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.