(12-28-2015, 07:22 PM)Snozzz Wrote: That pirates demand credits is not unsurprising, but totaly unrealistic that they will get what they demand. Where is all our money kept ? On some imaginary Banks computer. Would they permit criminal organizations like the Rogues to operate through them. Right, theres no chance. More likely they would freeze the account and bring the 'law' in and simply terminate their account and the 'law' would confiscate the contents. All regardless of the victims immediate predicament.
Maybe you don´t know it, but even in current real world, police/governments are able to freeze accounts, yet druglords, traffickers and other criminals and terrorists are able to keep huge amounts of money in banks abroad and use them via proxy accounts and fictional companies. Tracking and freezing dirty money is not that easy as you might think, especially with current rise of bitcoins which criminals love because they are almost untraceable (there are for example hackers which can infiltrate computers of incautious people with virus which heavily ecrypts all data and you have to pay to get the password to get data back. And these criminals are quite succesful in getting money from people using bitcoins, because their demands are not really high and victims don´t want to lose their data; and police have really hard times to catch them and track the payments. So you can see some analogy with Disco pirate payments here). Criminals will always find their ways, even in police states. So when we go back into Disco reality - would you really think that for example Gallic bank would block accounts of Bretonia pirate group when Bretonia corporation/police/government ask them to do it? Same goes for Liberty and Rheinland during their war etc. There will be always someone who will save criminal´s money for some fee and then you just need to find a way how to make transfers, what is also not that hard when you know how and have money to pay middlemen.
(12-28-2015, 07:22 PM)Snozzz Wrote: If instead of the official factions being given Cap8 armour as their 'start up perk' they were all given a POB and required to keep it alive to keep themselves alive. Or better still made to create one. And support it. Then we would see a whole different dynamic given they had to pirate to get the supplies. Instead of laying back and just loling at the grief they cause everyone else. Stop their free-ride.
This would be great way how to kill all official piracy (and all unlawful in general) factions. It would also be abusing fact that we have no game mechanics for capturing ships what is actually one of the main things that pirates did in history as well as present times (see pirates around Somalia and their hijacks of ships for money as an example), but they can´t do that in Disco. What is actually far more "unrealistic" than the keeping and transferring money you mentioned above.
(12-28-2015, 07:21 PM)Frankenstein Wrote: Also since when and Junker can pirate in the house systems ? a pirate demanded all cargo or die he killed one of us in Omegas i could manage to run to pool then to Dublin. he managed to expect where i am going and we met again in Dublin. the pirate bomber is not capable of killing me in such a small distance between pool jumphole to graves station till i dock. they realized it and the junker started firing at me to help the pirate.
maybe i am mistaken and my understanding is wrong. can a Junker help a pirate killing a trader in a house system ? or they just went blind when they realized that the bomber is not capable of killing my trade ship and i will be able to dock and they are not gonna get the ore they are after ""in this case they are not really after any sort of RP or having fun since they didn't really RP except for the 2 lines the rules demand they are only after the dollar sign lol""
Junkers can´t pirate in house systems, but their classification is different by RP laws and by server rules. Look at them and you can see they can pirate in all systems except those written by bold blue font. So Dublin is fair game for Junker piracy.
(12-28-2015, 08:07 PM)Snozzz. Wrote: On some imaginary Banks computer. Would they permit criminal organizations like the Rogues to operate through them.
The answer is: Lane Hackers.
(12-28-2015, 07:21 PM)Zak.Conner Wrote: Also since when and Junker can pirate in the house systems ? a pirate demanded all cargo or die he killed one of us in Omegas i could manage to run to pool then to Dublin.
If piracy chase started in non-house system, the Junker has full right to chase you down even to the house systems, as it is continuation of the engagement - with rules not being broken, as piracy started in a system depicted by ID. If target, however, leaves Junker scanners for more than 2-3 minutes - target has escaped.
(12-28-2015, 07:22 PM)Snozzz Wrote: If instead of the official factions being given Cap8 armour as their 'start up perk' they were all given a POB and required to keep it alive to keep themselves alive. Or better still made to create one. And support it. Then we would see a whole different dynamic given they had to pirate to get the supplies. Instead of laying back and just loling at the grief they cause everyone else. Stop their free-ride.
And then we'd get lawfuls running around finding bases and blowing them up, or they'd pull a metagame and set their docking tags to allow their 5kers.
(12-28-2015, 10:23 PM)FluffReborn Wrote: If piracy chase started in non-house system, the Junker has full right to chase you down even to the house systems, as it is continuation of the engagement - with rules not being broken, as piracy started in a system depicted by ID.
Are you sure of this? If I get a sanction in the future its on you
(12-28-2015, 10:23 PM)FluffReborn Wrote: If piracy chase started in non-house system, the Junker has full right to chase you down even to the house systems, as it is continuation of the engagement - with rules not being broken, as piracy started in a system depicted by ID.
Are you sure of this? If I get a sanction in the future its on you
You are to drop demand in a system allowed by your line, but you can chase it even to the other side of the Sirius.
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I've never really had a problem with traders not paying. Just blow them up, get a free blue and move on. That is of course, if the trader actually stopped and you had an alright RP conversation after which he refused to pay.
The real problem are silent traders who don't even try to do any kind of interaction and either immediately engage you as soon as they get in range or continue to thrust away to the nearest lane, thinking they'll live. And those who actually stop when you tell them to usually just say something along the lines "what u want" or "hurry up". Those need to somehow be informed that pirates don't mean your immediate death, nor will the world end if you lose 5 minutes on a conversation instead of trading.
(12-29-2015, 01:12 AM)Antonio Wrote: I've never really had a problem with traders not paying. Just blow them up, get a free blue and move on. That is of course, if the trader actually stopped and you had an alright RP conversation after which he refused to pay.
The real problem are silent traders who don't even try to do any kind of interaction and either immediately engage you as soon as they get in range or continue to thrust away to the nearest lane, thinking they'll live. And those who actually stop when you tell them to usually just say something along the lines "what u want" or "hurry up". Those need to somehow be informed that pirates don't mean your immediate death, nor will the world end if you lose 5 minutes on a conversation instead of trading.
This goes both ways, what you described is the exception. Most of the pirates are like:
:: Give me 20 million and your cargo or die.
Then one starts and tries negotiating and next thing you know is:
:: You didn't fulfill my demand - opening fire
And you're dead.
No wonder we don't stop when trading or trying to run for what is worth. If everyone would do "meaningful" role play - emphasis on meaningful then it would work, but 90% aren't!!! In the type of RP you described, I would have paid without a problem.
I remember a pirate years ago, who chased me through several systems, me in a Camara. I finally made it to Manhatten and we kept RPing in private chat. Money exchanged hands and we were good. Man those times were awesome. Not like the Mega gamers today. Jump in a ship scope out the trader, switch ships then chase him, switch ships again and wait for him at a key point where no one is shooting at him because he's a Freelancer or Junker.
Another reason why traders run, and there are many more!
Traders don't pay because the whole system is broken. Roleplay is meant to be satisfying to all parties concerned whether they "win" or "lose" an encounter, but that simply doesn't happen here. The very roleplay you come here for no longer fills the chasm yawning at the soul of those who play here. Now you get "Pay me or die", that doesn't leave alot of room for creativity.
The main problem is the expectation of the "quality" (and I use the term loosely when it comes to piracy) roleplay. Everyone has their own bar of what they think is acceptable or not. Community-wise this varies a great deal. Therefore the success of satisfaction is hit-and-miss, you might only enjoy 2% of your encounters if you are really "l33t".
Piracy is simply cat and mouse. One winner, one loser. No one likes being a loser. Which is why you get threads like this. There, I just summarized 10 pages for you.
(12-28-2015, 07:22 PM)Snozzz Wrote: If instead of the official factions being given Cap8 armour as their 'start up perk' they were all given a POB and required to keep it alive to keep themselves alive. Or better still made to create one. And support it. Then we would see a whole different dynamic given they had to pirate to get the supplies. Instead of laying back and just loling at the grief they cause everyone else. Stop their free-ride.
And then we'd get lawfuls running around finding bases and blowing them up, or they'd pull a metagame and set their docking tags to allow their 5kers.
Well whats so different there and if it sounds biased, whats so different there. Transports/traders have been everybodies whipping boy come nerf time forever. Turn the tables, their turn.
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(12-28-2015, 08:07 PM)Laura C. Wrote:
(12-28-2015, 07:22 PM)Snozzz Wrote: That pirates demand credits is not unsurprising, but totaly unrealistic that they will get what they demand. Where is all our money kept ? On some imaginary Banks computer. Would they permit criminal organizations like the Rogues to operate through them. Right, theres no chance. More likely they would freeze the account and bring the 'law' in and simply terminate their account and the 'law' would confiscate the contents. All regardless of the victims immediate predicament.
Maybe you don´t know it, but even in current real world, police/governments are able to freeze accounts, yet druglords, traffickers and other criminals and terrorists are able to keep huge amounts of money in banks abroad and use them via proxy accounts and fictional companies. Tracking and freezing dirty money is not that easy as you might think, especially with current rise of bitcoins which criminals love because they are almost untraceable (there are for example hackers which can infiltrate computers of incautious people with virus which heavily ecrypts all data and you have to pay to get the password to get data back. And these criminals are quite succesful in getting money from people using bitcoins, because their demands are not really high and victims don´t want to lose their data; and police have really hard times to catch them and track the payments. So you can see some analogy with Disco pirate payments here). Criminals will always find their ways, even in police states. So when we go back into Disco reality - would you really think that for example Gallic bank would block accounts of Bretonia pirate group when Bretonia corporation/police/government ask them to do it? Same goes for Liberty and Rheinland during their war etc. There will be always someone who will save criminal´s money for some fee and then you just need to find a way how to make transfers, what is also not that hard when you know how and have money to pay middlemen.
(12-28-2015, 07:22 PM)Snozzz Wrote: If instead of the official factions being given Cap8 armour as their 'start up perk' they were all given a POB and required to keep it alive to keep themselves alive. Or better still made to create one. And support it. Then we would see a whole different dynamic given they had to pirate to get the supplies. Instead of laying back and just loling at the grief they cause everyone else. Stop their free-ride.
This would be great way how to kill all official piracy (and all unlawful in general) factions. It would also be abusing fact that we have no game mechanics for capturing ships what is actually one of the main things that pirates did in history as well as present times (see pirates around Somalia and their hijacks of ships for money as an example), but they can´t do that in Disco. What is actually far more "unrealistic" than the keeping and transferring money you mentioned above.
The analogies with to day hold very little. Sure criminals can exploit a unsophistictaed pray atm but that is changing steadily against them. At the end of the day its the corporations that pull the governments strings/fills their purses not the criminals. So yes it is only going to be small scale cash transfer for pirates.
Abusing a nonexistant mechanic eh. Well it wouldnt be that hard to do something, perhaps based on a kill message being otained and all necessary rp given. But if a pirate is to board your ship he needs to have a crew and if he wants to haul it away after pewing it hes going to need a repair ship and a bunch of regens to do it. Otherwise its just canibalism of the wreck (and of lesser value [ship value+cargo value * remaing hull%). They would have to use transports to haul the cargo off and then make what they could from selling it (if cash is their goal).
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" The Lane Hackers do it" really, of course they can't or they would not be flying round being the pains in the ass they are. They would be robbing you from their armchairs instead. So no they can't. And as the Tor raids proved they can't get away with much when they do (for those that like modern day analogues).