(06-11-2013, 03:28 PM)Duvelske Wrote: I caught you flying intentionally an knowingly into that jumphole moments later you make a post that you where slaughtered. Ok thats up to you, but when someone makes a post on the forums to inform the people of sirius that due to certain circomstances something has to be closed. Do not QQ about it afterwards.
Lol pls, do you have any more lies to tell while you are at it? Like the ones about you not cheating or the PM you sent me with your grand "admin conspiraceh" against your person...
[11:20:20] aerelm: its not fl dev work if you dont have to power through the whole thing on your own
[11:20:32] aerelm: help is for pussy devs like in dota
(06-11-2013, 03:10 PM)Anaximander Wrote: It's an issue when new Outcast players and burgeoning Cardamine smugglers get whacked like this, they ditch either the server or ditch the Outcasts. I love the Outcasts more than any faction, so it saddens me to see fresh blood getting chased off. Can't comment on other groups because I haven't been in a group experiencing that. Your base, while boosting forum activity, kills in-game activity for other players; and you got a responsibility for that if you truly want the respect you seem to think you deserve.
Indeed it is hard to ignore your love to the outcasts when you defend them this much even when their "innocence" is pretty questionable, one may even raise the question of bias too.
What in-game activity does it kill? The responsibility on the part of the station administration has been fulfilled when a warning has been issued. A simple exchange of transmissions and you don't have to deal with the base anymore. But as everything, this goes both ways too... where were your responsibility when passing the station? Oh, right, indies don't have to be responsible for anything, because they are not officials, right? Sure, it is always easier to blame others for our own mistakes.
(06-11-2013, 03:10 PM)Anaximander Wrote: Ditto. You can keep saying that whenever you don't get the answer you want, and so can I. Let's fast forward over that part.
I keep saying that whenever I feel you ignored me and lately I tend to feel that quite often.
(06-11-2013, 03:10 PM)Anaximander Wrote: And here is where I was of the belief that Factions should rise above that and ensure their bases act according to lore and ID, even if there are no written rules on the area. Afterall, how can you claim to be more capable of having bases when you stoop to the lowest level? For a neutral faction TAZ chose the most violent, bloody and hostile solution to their problem, when there was a range of other more diplomatic or subtle solutions available - just because they could and no one was there to stop them, regardless of what lore suggests.
Ever thought that of as a possible last resort? I assume you have already had to deal with indies and new guys... of course you did. Now you may know it pretty well that some can be reasoned with and some can't. What would you do if somebody totally ignores your words and does harm to you? TAZ are neutral, but not at all costs.
(06-11-2013, 03:10 PM)Anaximander Wrote: That base was shooting innocents for a period of time, and you said that the warning you posted on the forum was sufficient justification to do so, did you not? Would that be sufficient rp to you if we were talking player actions and not base actions?
Wow, so you interpreted a static object shooting at you when you went close as hunting you down? You really interpreted a simple exchange of transmissions on a tone of your choice as begging? Sure, if you take things out of context, you can interpret anything anyway, as you wish, but it pretty much harms your credibility, you know, right?
(06-11-2013, 03:10 PM)Anaximander Wrote: And when there is no player faction to apply those consequences, then what? We let it slide? We don't have a commitment in our own RP to at least take into account both sides of the lore framework we seek to adhere to?
In case of no faction, apply consequences on the individuals, pretty easy.
I said numerous times that indies have a whole lot of responsibility. I don't think being active on the forum and keeping eyes peeled to random comms threads to avoid getting killed by neutral parties is one of them though. Personally I am an indie and a faction player*; I feel equally responsible for my actions when I log a tagged as well as an untagged ship.
Naturally when a smuggler gets insta-killed on his first cardi run, he'll go hauling ore or something else. Making life difficult for Outcasts = Making life difficult for Outcast players = some will go elsewhere because that's easier. There's nothing odd in that.
Did you try hunting those couple of Outcasts that'd been harassing you? Did you get your friends and allies to chase them down? Did you bounty them severely? Was taking every passing non-registered ship hostage REALLY the last resort?
Who applies the roleplay consequences on you when there's no faction to do so?
*Mind you, all the forum PVP I do I do on my own account, and whatever factions I am in would probably prefer me to be less "difficult" so everything I say is on behalf of myself exclusively, not in any way does it have to do with any groups or factions I am associated to.
(06-11-2013, 03:44 PM)Anaximander Wrote: I said numerous times that indies have a whole lot of responsibility. I don't think being active on the forum and keeping eyes peeled to random comms threads to avoid getting killed by neutral parties is one of them though. Personally I am an indie and a faction player*; I feel equally responsible for my actions when I log a tagged as well as an untagged ship.
That is good, and you are a good example of a player, but you too have to admint that your example of a responsible indie is not something we could freely call a standard.
And yes, if that is needed for you to stay alive, it is your responsibility too if you want to stay alive.
(06-11-2013, 03:44 PM)Anaximander Wrote: Naturally when a smuggler gets insta-killed on his first cardi run, he'll go hauling ore or something else. Making life difficult for Outcasts = Making life difficult for Outcast players = some will go elsewhere because that's easier. There's nothing odd in that.
Can you tell me the exact number of players decided not to smuggle cardi only because of they got popped by Mal Fp?
(06-11-2013, 03:44 PM)Anaximander Wrote: Did you try hunting those couple of Outcasts that'd been harassing you? Did you get your friends and allies to chase them down? Did you bounty them severely? Was taking every passing non-registered ship hostage REALLY the last resort?
Who applies the roleplay consequences on you when there's no faction to do so?
I am not aware what exact measures TAZ did against those individuals, but I trust their judgement. They are a well known roleplaying faction, if it comes to simple shooting, then that must have been a last resort. That is my standpoint, only TAZ members can get proper answers to your question.
(06-11-2013, 04:08 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: That is good, and you are a good example of a player, but you too have to admint that your example of a responsible indie is not something we could freely call a standard.
Indies would surprise you if you let them. To be frank with you, I have a hunch that a lot of the so-called indies that troll around are otherwise faction players that take a break from responsibility and thinks it is within reason "because that's what indies do anyway" <- can't prove that though, just a hunch.
(06-11-2013, 04:08 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: Can you tell me the exact number of players decided not to smuggle cardi only because of they got popped by Mal Fp?
Can you tell me the exact number of ships Mal Fp whacked?
(06-11-2013, 04:08 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: I am not aware what exact measures TAZ did against those individuals, but I trust their judgement. They are a well known roleplaying faction, if it comes to simple shooting, then that must have been a last resort. That is my standpoint, only TAZ members can get proper answers to your question.
I understand that, but there's where you and I are different. I played on this server for a long time, for long enough to form the opinion that trust is something you earn by your actions, and not by your association.
And true, TAZ IS more or less the pinnacle of RP on this server. Been around for a loooong time, had a huge impact in many ways and an impressive legacy. I liked that TAZ. All I am saying is pls be extremely careful that you don't throw all that over board - it's my opinion that the TAZ of 4.86 is far from what it was pre-4.86, that's sad, and I think bases are a big contributor to that.
(06-11-2013, 04:20 PM)Anaximander Wrote: Indies would surprise you if you let them. To be frank with you, I have a hunch that a lot of the so-called indies that troll around are otherwise faction players that take a break from responsibility and thinks it is within reason "because that's what indies do anyway" <- can't prove that though, just a hunch.
That is easily possible, but I had experiences with indies I tried to guide and warn of the possible inRP issues of his actions. And getting totally ignored is a bad feeling.
(06-11-2013, 04:20 PM)Anaximander Wrote: Can you tell me the exact number of ships Mal Fp whacked?
Nope, why, can you?
(06-11-2013, 04:20 PM)Anaximander Wrote: I understand that, but there's where you and I are different. I played on this server for a long time, for long enough to form the opinion that trust is something you earn by your actions, and not by your association.
Then you can guess with decent accuracy why I trust the zoners of Baffin.
(06-11-2013, 04:20 PM)Anaximander Wrote: And true, TAZ IS more or less the pinnacle of RP on this server. Been around for a loooong time, had a huge impact in many ways and an impressive legacy. I liked that TAZ. All I am saying is pls be extremely careful that you don't throw all that over board - it's my opinion that the TAZ of 4.86 is far from what it was pre-4.86, that's sad, and I think bases are a big contributor to that.
Bases tend to be a big contributor to massive ooRP all around the server with their lack of regulations, if they are at least inRP stuff to a degree, that's the better case. You know there are way worse examples than TAZ bases.
Another thing is that I fear it's not only bases, but certain recent events could easily cripple TAZ, judgements which I personally find questionable. Past weeks about three or four TAZ member left DiscoGC, and even the remaining ones aren't as inactive as they had been. This faction would certainly require a bit more love at the moment.
(06-11-2013, 03:28 PM)Duvelske Wrote: I caught you flying intentionally an knowingly into that jumphole moments later you make a post that you where slaughtered. Ok thats up to you, but when someone makes a post on the forums to inform the people of sirius that due to certain circomstances something has to be closed. Do not QQ about it afterwards.
Lol pls, do you have any more lies to tell while you are at it? Like the ones about you not cheating or the PM you sent me with your grand "admin conspiraceh" against your person...
(06-11-2013, 03:28 PM)Duvelske Wrote: I caught you flying intentionally an knowingly into that jumphole moments later you make a post that you where slaughtered.
^Where in those links did I do that?
Go away.
@Thyr:
(06-11-2013, 04:37 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:
(06-11-2013, 04:20 PM)Anaximander Wrote: Can you tell me the exact number of ships Mal Fp whacked?
Nope, why, can you?
That's exactly what I mean; we don't know and that's not good enough.
Look, back in the old days TAZ locked down Baffin on several occasions, when they did so they'd have a good presence in space and intercept players passing through informing them of the lockdown and why. People would get permits, and the few acting hostile or extremely "lolwutty" would get shot. New players would get a nice introduction what TAZ is, and more experienced players would get to roleplay with TAZ and have fun. Now they set a base to full hostile and just kill everyone, and all the RP it eventually amounts to is posts on the forum saying "Can I pass" and TAZ saying "Ok". That's all the RP said base action generate.
The difference in "roleplay value" between the two approaches is immense, and I can't understand why this is sufficient to current TAZ with such an impressive legacy.
![[Image: OFPpYpb.png]](https://i.imgur.com/OFPpYpb.png)
![[Image: N1Zf8K4.png]](https://i.imgur.com/N1Zf8K4.png)
![[Image: LnLbhul.png]](https://i.imgur.com/LnLbhul.png)
