The Kusari Exiles do seem incredibly interesting to RP, the fact that Zealot conveniently wants to lead the faction he 'proofread' the storyline for seems to happen all the time around here, as long as it doesnt become an invite only faction, who cares? The person who wrote it knows best, after all? Right? (not always)
I've read these entire 14 pages. I swear. Pretty interesting. The need for a treaty does not exist if it's already there in lore, because everyone knows that Lore created that's already in game is solidified. Bretonia and Rhienland should know about this because when they tried to have a war with eachother (Based on player actions) they lost assets in the 'actual' (directed, by Igiss, or someone) lore.
The whole enemies becoming friends thing against a common enemy has happened in history many times and there is no reason it cannot happen now.
For example, the Commies in China and the Nationalists. They allied to fight off the Japaneese but returned to fighting after WWII was over.
Because freeports sitting in open space surrounded by armies fighting for that terroritory remain Neutral and unviolated.
Where are the zoner treaties signed with all the factions that surround them?
Where did they sign they are neutral?
Yet, they remain neutral. It doesn't matter that Freeport 9, Freeport 10, Freeport 5 could be used as strategic base of operations by Outcasts, Hessians and Corsairs, Zoners remained neutral, and no one touched them. And they couldn't stand a chance against Outcasts, Hessians or Corsairs, well maybe with corsairs because they would starve to death without zoners. Where are those treaties?
Ronins need Bretonia, probably more than Bretonia need the Ronins.
Now, it's amasing, Gallia is about to stomp over Bretonia, and all what BAF is waiting to do is to push ronins around like dogs. The Kusari-Bretonia war really made it into your minds, you really feel like victims and are desperately waiting for someone weacker to push them around. Someone had it hard in high school apparently, for years being bullied and now dying to be the bully themselves.
It's gonna be funny when the Ronins get tired of being bullied, and decide to sign that very treaty with GRN xD
This is ridiculous. You all managed to pull 14 pages about a single thing in less than two days.
Yeah yeah yeah treaty this treaty that but srsly, the update just came out, not everyone is repped, the server crashes often, some people can't play at all and all you find to do is spam about the treaty.
The base of the treaty itself is explained here and there ingame and in the disco 4.86 stories that were posted by igiss and quoted here a long time ago. To be honest what's written there is already enough for me, I don't need to have a detailed report like :
- Ronins are allowed to cook in E4 in leeds, however they are only allowed to eat suchi if in D5 in leeds.
What I understood after reading everything when I've been invited to join the ronins after I said I'd be interested (considering I'm one of the 2 that did not have a KNF character before) it's :
- KILL GALLICS
- IF GALLIC IS STILL ALIVE, KILL AGAIN.
- Found a Gallic ? Kill Gallic.
- BAF fighting Gallics ? Help kill the Gallic.
- We're short on stuff, aim and keep your ship safe. Don't blow up.
- Bretonian corporations supply us and we are their guest, assist if they're in trouble.
- Gallic traders and traitor traders (Kishiro) around ? Kill it, and steal stuff for the benefit of the Ronins.
- ????
- Kill Gallic.
It's pretty straightforward imo.
When I see people talking of "But what if ronin is there and shouldn't be there ?" I wonder why you're even asking this ? The Ronin ID specifies we can hunt gallics wherever they are, BUT this does not cover the kind of metagaming a specific faction of the Taus has the habit to do even when it forces them to go beyond their fighters/bs ZOI. I consider that the "wherever they are" applies when you find the gallic ingame and not through the player list. If it's, let's say, an IDF transport that I stumble upon in 31 and for some reason goes all the way through Baffin, Coronado, Cortez or wherever he decides to run to, I'll keep chasing him. But that's pretty much if I have an actual chance of catching him or another Ronin can ambush him in the next system or something like that. Once the gallic is eliminated, the Ronins would return immediatly back to their normal zoi, which is Leeds/Newcastle/Edinburgh/etc taus and gallia.
So can't this treaty wait a bit untill everyone is actually able to really play ? There's more than enough to base ourselves on for now.
' Wrote:Enough with the treaty stuff... let the players involved deal with it among themselves.
What I want to know is what your stance is with Corsairs seeing as its likely you will come across them quite a bit.
Would you welcome some discreet supplies "found" floating in space as well as some wonderful magical artifacts that posses male enhancement properties? Or would you brush us off and ignore us? Or rat us out to the BAF?
I think the Corsairs and Ronin would have very different goals and doubt working together would provide us with many benefits and many more headaches.
' Wrote:"We have a treaty, okay?"
"Sure, what does it say?"
"Don't worry about it, just remember we have one."
"Sure, but what does it say?"
"I said don't worry about it, it's written right here we have a treaty."
"Alright, what do you gain?"
"Oh, we get to dock on your space, you'll give us supplies, let us fly around and do whatever."
"So what do we get out of it."
"Stop asking, I said we have a treaty and that's that."
"Why are you fighting?"
"Because we are at war"
"Ok, what are we getting from the war?"
"I don't know, but we are at war"
"Ok, but how long will we fight? What are our goals? Where are they writen?"
"Look dude, I just bought the ID, and says I can shoot those guys, give me a break"
"Why are you fighting?"
"Because some players decided not pay some other player and then the person RPing the house Government stepped in and began hostile actions."
"Oh, okay, hey look we can influence the story and our actions have an effect!"
"lolno Westfallen and LD-14 are someone else's now."
":("
While I admit that the reasoning wasn't the greatest on both sides, the fact is we knew WHY we were fighting. It may of been silly, but we knew the reasons. Besides, as I said, starting a FIGHT, is different then discussing supplies, basing, and permissions to be in certain locations, do certain things, ect.
With this Treaty, it can say literally anything Zelot wants it to, as long as it suits him.
"Wait, we aren't supplying you."
"Yes you are, it says so in this treaty. Duh, read the storyline."
"But we decided we don't want to anymore."
"Nope, you can't. The storyline I wrote that has the treaty that can say pretty much anything said so."
or
"Hey, you can't dock there."
"Yes we can, treaty said so."
"I have posted the same thing 6 times to make sure I proved my point even though I already proved it in my first post"
":("
Guys this is getting redundant.
I'd suggest you all stop with the treaty thing for now. Zelot got your point, there's no need to start turning it into +1ing and let him deal about that with those he's meant to do it with.
Bretonia is in as much a position to pass up help from the reasonably insignificant force of the Ronin as it so desires.
Its actual military or economic position vs the Gallics -cannot- be described in terms of a conflict of individuals, it is not. It is bound up in the reasonably stagnant emotion of billions, who hate the emporer, and his Kusari.
They hate your guts. Much of the population would rather see you die than have you help, to the point that they'd be willing to starve to see it done. They're not even close to those levels of deprivation, and their military status is, frankly, better now than it was when the kusari were invading. This being the case, I fail to see how you'd get the terms through.
Eh, emotional rant over.
Now, here's the rational.
Gallia has advanced less far into Bretonia than Kusari did, to date.
Bretonia is actually in a better economic stance now than it was during the Tau War, since it has free trade with three, rather than two, houses.
Bretonia is populated by a culture patterned on a very jingoistic, self supporting, pig headed one.
The same way North Korea is willing to suffer starvation rather than give up its stance against America, the west, and the world, Bretonia isn't likely to spread its legs to Kogen.
Kogen ordered the war which led to the deaths of...well, the lore is unclear, but I'd argue millions, and threatened billions. The Bretonian people, a very sizeable portion of whom live on Leeds, and have been purposefully terrorized by the onset of war, hate your guts. Even if the ruling parties were willing to commit the public relations suicide of accepting the bloody bastard with open arms, they wouldn't be so stupid as to pitch it to the population as anything less than an elaborate method at concentration camp (Note that bretonia is modeled on a society that wasn't even particularly opposed to committing such genocides on the savages of Africa. There's rather more vitriol in derisions of Kusari's barbarism than you suspected, I think.)
The point of all this is that I do not, nor do many of the people who identify with bretonia, nor would the populance, care that we need, in cold terms, every gun that bretonia can get. In terms of what we know Vis-A-Vie the storyline, it doesn't make a lick of difference what Bretonia does before Liberty gets involved in the war, and in terms of what Bretonia knows in lore, currently, the material of the Ronin can easily be caputured or destroyed, and one thing Bretonia is in on way poor in is population.
Furthermore, in terms of economy, population is the primary driving factor behind production, which indicates to me that bretonia is not so poor as you suggest. Militarily tattered, perhaps, but also engaging in the greatest military buildup in its history (or was, during the last mod...such things seem to be forgotten now)
And, anyhow, Uhm...NA NA NA NA NA LA LA LA BRETONIA DOES NOT WANT YOUR HELP la la
TL:DR
Zelot, I'm bloody well sick of that rp copout that bretonia's going to take Kogen's help because its helpful. People are not rational.
Surprisingly, I wasn't talking about the BAF-RM war-for-boringness thing.
I was talking about every war in this game.
When will the LN-RM war end? Where has Joe writen that? Where did Malexa (RM leader at that time)?
Where did the LN, LSF, LPI declared their different jurisdictions?
Not everything that happens in game is writen in forum by the leader at that time of those factions.
If I had to guess why Ronins are allowed in Leeds by BAF, I'd say because BAF was losing the war, if it was not for the GRN, there would be a Sushi shop in every corner at Leeds, that would make me think that that small Ronin fleet is capable of helping BAF quite a lot, to the point that the Queen allowed them to stay.
It might sound silly why the ronins are allowed there, but like in many games and many movies, silly things are allowed to make it different than real life.
Bretonia is in as much a position to pass up help from the reasonably insignificant force of the Ronin as it so desires.
Its actual military or economic position vs the Gallics -cannot- be described in terms of a conflict of individuals, it is not. It is bound up in the reasonably stagnant emotion of billions, who hate the emporer, and his Kusari.
They hate your guts. Much of the population would rather see you die than have you help, to the point that they'd be willing to starve to see it done. They're not even close to those levels of deprivation, and their military status is, frankly, better now than it was when the kusari were invading. This being the case, I fail to see how you'd get the terms through.
Eh, emotional rant over.
Now, here's the rational.
Gallia has advanced less far into Bretonia than Kusari did, to date.
Bretonia is actually in a better economic stance now than it was during the Tau War, since it has free trade with three, rather than two, houses.
Bretonia is populated by a culture patterned on a very jingoistic, self supporting, pig headed one.
The same way North Korea is willing to suffer starvation rather than give up its stance against America, the west, and the world, Bretonia isn't likely to spread its legs to Kogen.
Kogen ordered the war which led to the deaths of...well, the lore is unclear, but I'd argue millions, and threatened billions. The Bretonian people, a very sizeable portion of whom live on Leeds, and have been purposefully terrorized by the onset of war, hate your guts. Even if the ruling parties were willing to commit the public relations suicide of accepting the bloody bastard with open arms, they wouldn't be so stupid as to pitch it to the population as anything less than an elaborate method at concentration camp (Note that bretonia is modeled on a society that wasn't even particularly opposed to committing such genocides on the savages of Africa. There's rather more vitriol in derisions of Kusari's barbarism than you suspected, I think.)
The point of all this is that I do not, nor do many of the people who identify with bretonia, nor would the populance, care that we need, in cold terms, every gun that bretonia can get. In terms of what we know Vis-A-Vie the storyline, it doesn't make a lick of difference what Bretonia does before Liberty gets involved in the war, and in terms of what Bretonia knows in lore, currently, the material of the Ronin can easily be caputured or destroyed, and one thing Bretonia is in on way poor in is population.
Furthermore, in terms of economy, population is the primary driving factor behind production, which indicates to me that bretonia is not so poor as you suggest. Militarily tattered, perhaps, but also engaging in the greatest military buildup in its history (or was, during the last mod...such things seem to be forgotten now)
And, anyhow, Uhm...NA NA NA NA NA LA LA LA BRETONIA DOES NOT WANT YOUR HELP la la
TL:DR
Zelot, I'm bloody well sick of that rp copout that bretonia's going to take Kogen's help because its helpful. People are not rational.
Well then fine, I will suggest to Cannon, that we have something very bad happen to the Ronin, as well as consequences to the Bretonians, such as losing the Leeds system, probably more, and we can just say the storyline doesn't matter anymore and there is no way Bretonia can accept the Exiles as anything other than slaves, which the Exiles weren't willing to accept, so they fought each other and Gallia used the opportunity to rape them both. We could go back the original plan for 486 and have Gallia parked on top of Planet New London.
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