Once more I let myself get sucked into this vortex...in a hopefully not vain attempt to point out that there's a little more to this than "we are right they are evil".
I understand the Unselie's point about the Old School clans safeguarding the world of make believe story telling from tacticians and arcade shooters (my generalization). I also think all of those are dreadful genres to reduce Freelancer to.
I don't want to circle fight all day..."Good fight...Yup...Wanna do it again?" or, "We will build a fleet so large it will darken the sun and obliterate all other life on the server with our empire" or, "We just want to take turns telling stories and no shooting or anything that might upset one of us."
Freelancer is--whether you like it or not--a combination of all three of these. Sure, rp is emphasized here but you don't eliminate personal goals of players and the fact that much of it is achieved through power and wealth and it's for personal fun and entertainment. That's science fiction and that's the game too.
As to the factions being the last bastion of hope--who watches the watchers?
Right now it isn't entirely a case of noble factions with fair minded reason trying to maintain balance and equality for all. It's a lot like efforts to unify like-minded old power blocks to drive out any new players who are perceived as having different view of the game.
"Role play" isn't an accurate description of what these groups want to preserve, it's THEIR role play as they have done it. No one else's is allowed..
I have read through old faction descriptions and forum posts and some what was considered "high role play" is laughably absurd and ridiculous (some is very good too). Some things I have read that were accepted are downright embarrassing--yet some of the very perpetrators of that rp are the darlings of the server today.
Now someone new can come along with intricate and involved role play but it must first bow to all the role play that proceeded it to be accepted. Meaning this:
Not only must it not contradict what's been made a precedent in game history by other players--it must not impact or alter what they did in any way. If one of the grand old players created a historic alliance then no one else is allowed to come along now and create a play that would challenge or threaten that alliance.
In short, "they" are allowed to set precedent but you are not.
So role play opportunities for new players start out squashed before they begin. The same old line up of reasons is given: show your ability to rp first, get a good reputation with and approval of the factions, have a sound and written idea for review...but in reality, those things take back seat to "do the powers that be want your role play?"
If they don't, then it doesn't matter if your creativity matches or exceeds theirs--it's their server and you can sit down or leave.
It is NOT that the whole server is this way or every old player or entire faction thinks this way. Many good, open minded fair players on here--but this is the biggest problem right now--the idea that "We were here first" supersedes the fun of other new players.
I hope that the "niche" this server fills isn't a personal one reserved for a few players who were here first--I hope its an actual open niche, so new people can genuinely and equally participate.
I agree with you Tinkerbell to an extent. The most logical points I personally understood from Unselie was the fact that more number of players require more "caring" so to speak. Meaning we have to learn these new players what roleplay is about and how things work in this server. That now it has come too many too fast and before there was a steady flow of new players coming in that we could handle and take care of. I think this issue is about to be resolved by the "New generation" of admins soon about to kick in. I'm currently seeing these "soon to be elected" admins to be the last hope...
I'm not here to argue about factions and independents blablabla. It has been beaten to death already we all know it. If you look at my post, I wrote something that I had observed, something I saw as the real major difference between the past and the present...
' Wrote:Once more I let myself get sucked into this vortex...in a hopefully not vain attempt to point out that there's a little more to this than "we are right they are evil".
I understand the Unselie's point about the Old School clans safeguarding the world of make believe story telling from tacticians and arcade shooters (my generalization). I also think all of those are dreadful genres to reduce Freelancer to.
I don't want to circle fight all day..."Good fight...Yup...Wanna do it again?" or, "We will build a fleet so large it will darken the sun and obliterate all other life on the server with our empire" or, "We just want to take turns telling stories and no shooting or anything that might upset one of us."
Freelancer is--whether you like it or not--a combination of all three of these. Sure, rp is emphasized here but you don't eliminate personal goals of players and the fact that much of it is achieved through power and wealth and it's for personal fun and entertainment. That's science fiction and that's the game too.
As to the factions being the last bastion of hope--who watches the watchers?
Right now it isn't entirely a case of noble factions with fair minded reason trying to maintain balance and equality for all. It's a lot like efforts to unify like-minded old power blocks to drive out any new players who are perceived as having different view of the game.
"Role play" isn't an accurate description of what these groups want to preserve, it's THEIR role play as they have done it. No one else's is allowed..
I have read through old faction descriptions and forum posts and some what was considered "high role play" is laughably absurd and ridiculous (some is very good too). Some things I have read that were accepted are downright embarrassing--yet some of the very perpetrators of that rp are the darlings of the server today.
Now someone new can come along with intricate and involved role play but it must first bow to all the role play that proceeded it to be accepted. Meaning this:
Not only must it not contradict what's been made a precedent in game history by other players--it must not impact or alter what they did in any way. If one of the grand old players created a historic alliance then no one else is allowed to come along now and create a play that would challenge or threaten that alliance.
In short, "they" are allowed to set precedent but you are not.
So role play opportunities for new players start out squashed before they begin. The same old line up of reasons is given: show your ability to rp first, get a good reputation with and approval of the factions, have a sound and written idea for review...but in reality, those things take back seat to "do the powers that be want your role play?"
If they don't, then it doesn't matter if your creativity matches or exceeds theirs--it's their server and you can sit down or leave.
It is NOT that the whole server is this way or every old player or entire faction thinks this way. Many good, open minded fair players on here--but this is the biggest problem right now--the idea that "We were here first" supersedes the fun of other new players.
I hope that the "niche" this server fills isn't a personal one reserved for a few players who were here first--I hope its an actual open niche, so new people can genuinely and equally participate.
That is what's needed.
I do understand that other, fresh RP is often squashed by what was done before, but I also think that this is natural and healthy. Some RP might need retconning, such as Drake Thastus, or other things that the majority have decided are not kosher, but you must understand, there is a sense of story to this server's history, that we try to make sense. RP that deviates or changes that history, or sets up to replay our mistakes...or just plain change the way we have decided to play...
Imagine you wrote a story. Months later, someone wrote another story, that took your world, and possibly referenced your characters (things that are your intelectual property in many places) and altered them, to something you did not foresee or plan for...but you now had to deal with, and write your stories around it...That is what happens here.
Tinkerbell I understand what you are saying, but people have to understand that this server is really a virtual universe, with it's own customs and history. History being the point I want to bring up. The universe existed before the vast majority of us were here. Now when a new player comes into the universe, it is ridiculous to think they can just ignore the RP that has come before them. That is how history works, the events that took place before have an effect on the events happening now and in the future. To suggest that peoples RP shouldn't have to in at least some way conform to the history that has been built here on the server. If that were the case, every player here would be playing his or her own game, with their own RP about the history that came before them. What happens then when someone comes in and decides for instance, to make their RP that they are a Junker who was hired by Kusari to run Deuterium from o-49 to Honshu? Well the history of the server says that the scenario I outlined is a pipe dream for the Junker, because there is a prior relationship between the Junkers and the Hogosha that would make a RP like that imposable. But if we all got to do what we wanted with our RP, that would be ok, because it doesn't matter what someone else's RP is.
Here is the problem we are not playing the game by ourselves, we are playing and interacting with others here, and to be able to do that, we have to be on the same page with things. It's a common history of all the players here, whether they have been here 3 years or two days. That is because the history is what makes us able to play the game together. It is the map that we all are working with, and without that, we would not be able to interact with each other in any meaningful way except PVP. We are a community, and one of the defining characteristics of a community is a shared and common history, and without that the community would in fact no longer be a community, it would be a bunch of people playing the same game, but it would not be RP, and it would not be a community.
edit: wow, it took me a while to write that for some reason.
If someone wrote a good story--and did so in a way that didn't force anyone to change what they had already done then that is fine.
However if someone writes the same sort of story that doesn't force a change of past events but through the playing out of it does change the things that were done in the past--then it should be.
Understandable exceptions would be things that introduce new inventions that change the whole fabric of the game reality itself. For example, the Asgard are played into existence and someone invents a "Asgard eating nanobots" and they are made extinct--not cool.
But If someone plays into existence (with good rp and rationale and acceptance of current game technologies and limitations) the "Aesir" and the Aesir attract enough followers to displace the Asgard--then, "Buh Bye Asgard". That's not a negative, that's new role play rising to the surface.
I would never tell someone myself, "You can't do that because I like mine better". If they can create something that doesn't change reality that's more successful than me then its kudos to them
Its not my server--its for everyone--past, present and future.
If you want to see the consistent model for the death of a server its two things: when they are held together by a few factions who leave and they lose their numbers or when they are controlled by a few factions and don't get new numbers.
In short, the title of independent should only be given in the following people:
-starters below lvl 30, which are freelancers.
-Mercenary, BH and Freelancer. These two ranks must be harshly regulated by decent roleplayers.
-Acceptable indies. Again, regulated harshly.
so in other words the 106th as an "accepctable"indie group(i rerally dont wans us to be forced to disband or join a faction i love our little way our roleplay works
There has never been a SINGLE server in public existence that has forced people to join "official factions" and been succesful and long lived--not ONE. Ever...not now or in the past.
' Wrote:In short, the title of independent should only be given in the following people:
-starters below lvl 30, which are freelancers.
-Mercenary, BH and Freelancer. These two ranks must be harshly regulated by decent roleplayers.
-Acceptable indies. Again, regulated harshly.
should fix the prob~
Not all groups have a faction. There is still no official Junker faction. I guess they would fall under the harshly regulated acceptable indies?