' Wrote:The friction comes from additional rules that aren't real rules, enforced by pvp whoring, rp whoring and sanction whoring by the factions, which basically are tactics that remove any legitimacy they had as protectors of rp.
Address those issues in some meaningful way and I'll applaud your post.
Hmm, indeed. Now we come to the portion of the analysis that is harder to target, yes?
Independants can't be controlled. Period. It's impossible. If someone doesn't want to join a Faction, they don't have to. Why should they if they don't want to? Just to RP? If an individual wishes to RP a Freelancer (what the game is named off of, by God!), why should that player get ganked, or, God forbid, Sanctioned, because they refuse to go along with the attitudes and ruleset of some other Faction? Everyone hates the rebel.
"You hurt my feelings!" *sanction* or some other such thing of equal absurdity.
However, while the 'RP or Die' scenario seems equally absurd, let's not forget the simple actions of common sense. I believe the server address clearly states : "Discovery Freelancer RP 24/7". Should we simply stick a message stating 'Role Play Only, non RP will be banned/kicked'? Some may say 'yes', and a little piece of me would agree. But that would limit us, also, perhaps too much, harking back to 'elitist' cadres of storytellers, foaming at the mouth at the barest hint of //.
The only way a resolution can be reached and the only way to solve the friction between what Discovery should be and what Discovery is if the community as a whole completely and utterly agrees to focus on a single goal: Is this Our game or My game?
I say it can be both simultaneously. I can say this because, for me, it is.
I've seen what 'Sanctions' are, and what they seem to do. Massive apologies and absolutely tremendous payouts. Essentially stating that disobeying the rules costs you, but it certainly teaches a lesson to the new people (myself included.) It's an extremely good idea that falls apart when people abuse the ever living hell out of it.
The rational part of me screams 'Get Rid of Sanctions Completely.' To me, as they are now, Sanctions just feel wrong. Rules need to be simplified and re-formatted to fit into a solid RP focus, allowing PVP only in the window of complete RP. Good luck with that, right Akuma?
What if Admins made a rulebreaker an actual, honest-to-god criminal, registering as an 'enemy' to every single player, docking station and NPC in Sirius? Can you imagine the pressure? Is this something that's beyond them? Please, educate me!
Seeing Factions as 'protectors of RP' is misguided, as far as I'm concerned. An individual should be allowed to choose whether they wish to RP in a Faction or not, and not be kicked around for that choice. The first word in 'Freelancer' is 'free.'
Regulating the individual choices of players is impossible, but it is not impossible to have indivdiuals be guardians of the rules the game lives by. Each and every person who applies for a character in Discovery should be responsible for following and recognizing those rules. It is the punishment in regards to breaking those rules that has certain people in a tizzy.
Fundamentally, there must be an agreement between the community at-large and the Admins/Moderators as to the absolute ruleset of the game in which we play. There must be a focused agreement that 'We Want RP In Disco' in order for that to occur. Once the new rules are drafted, submitted to the player base for perusal and commentary, only then should they be agreed upon by the Admins and 'set in stone' as it were.
If you're expecting the Ten Commandments from me, Akuma, you're not going to get it. I'm just one man with something to say that's important to him. I believe this is a topic that affects Discovery in its entirety, and the decisions resultant from it should be agreed upon by all of us.
Despite how much everyone wants to make everyone else happy, a singular consensus must eventually be reached in regards to rules, punishment and player freedom.
The only people a consensus followed by well defined rules helps is the average player.
If everything was well defined and fair, with a common goal agreed on by all it would reduce the power of the admins and the faction leaders to act on personal grudges, so although that would make the server immeasurably better for most players, it will never happen. If the admins and factions were willing to give up a small part of their power to make the server better they would have done it long ago.
' Wrote:The only people a consensus followed by well defined rules helps is the average player.
If everything was well defined and fair, with a common goal agreed on by all it would reduce the power of the admins and the faction leaders to act on personal grudges, so although that would make the server immeasurably better for most players, it will never happen. If the admins and factions were willing to give up a small part of their power to make the server better they would have done it long ago.
Nothing here will change.
So, you're saying nothing will ever change because... why? People are too lazy? Too self-absorbed? Too cynical?
I believe the people who share a similar mindset as my own would disagree... but that's not the point of this at all. The fact remains: New players join every day. There are people willing to help them follow the RP rules as they are. It is only the people who feel they have been stepped on that are slowing the process of growth for Discovery.
And the thing is, those people most likely have every right to feel that way. That doesn't mean Disco can't evlove beyond it. You've already agreed that such a consensus would improve Discovery, perhaps exponentially. The only reason you don't believe it is because, in the face of simple human action, it seems impossible.
I have to say that I'd wholeheartedly agree with you. For an RP server, there isn't that much drama that goes on here. Good thing. However, there are people who deal with situations.. immaturely. I don't know whether it's just ignorance, idiocy, or if they're purposefully looking to start up a ruse. I'm not saying that there are certain people here that are perfect; nobody's perfect. We all have our flaws.. but the server as a whole just seems to jump on people for OORP behavior. Myself included. We all simply forget that we were all newbies, and had to learn the ropes one way or another. Seniority or "I've dealt with this too much to deal with it politely" isn't an excuse. While it may be the hundredth time for us, it's the first experience (and first impression) for the newbie.. in most cases, that is.
Well the first post raised some good points. And then I read the hijack attempts and that negative and almost entirely inflammatory and, worse, jaded, anti-faction and now anti-admin thing emerged. I've given my opinion on that before and I won't do it again here, except to say, we are interdependents here.
Honestly the forum will solve little; if you want to raise the standards of RP then do it in game or try to set up things to make things fun for players to do something other than shoot each other up (nothing wrong with a bit of that either though, within reasonable parameters - otherwise we'd be playing on the Discovery Hand Holding Server 24/7)
I've met some brilliant people new on the server in the last few weeks, absolutley impressed by their willingness to try things out. It means I spend a lot of time talking, giving advice, steering them clear of the problems they'd likely run into. Sure I probably sound, as one guy put it, like "this RP is like a second life for you", but I laugh stuff off.
You'll achieve little in the forums by raising questions. The same flames will emerge by people with unfair generalistaions who use the platform of a forum to grind axes and cause dissent over personal grievances but who will rarely offer any solutions.
Start up with the solutions and I'll be impressed. If you think things are that bad and will never change, then why even bother posting? You think this is a service provided to keep you happy? No one gets paid for anything done here. You want to slate the admins? The NAME CHANGES alone are going to force one of the admins to take a day off work. Would YOU do it?
That was the most negative positive read ever. Like a sugar bowl with salt in it.
I started reading and was like 'wow, awesome' and then I was like 'huh?' and shortly after I hit 'wtf?'
This Community is a web of complex individuals with different paradigms, belief systems and value systems. - A common ground would be impossible. We all choose the foundation Igiss has given us and work off that!
There is no negotiated server guideline. We are all guests here on someone elses server and they kindly share it with us.
Frankly, I would play here whether it was RP or PvP because the majority of the individuals here are proactive in their efforts to make it a great experience for us all.
The rules and guidelines may alter somewhat here and there, but the fact that THIS IS AN RP SERVER comes way first in any debate or negotiation.
We build our stories off whatever platform Igiss has given us and we do our best to compliment other RP groups who have built their stories off the same foundation.
I play mostly as an independent myself, but frankly it's the independents who vomit the most negativity onto these forums or inspire others to complain here because it is (mostly) the independents who refuse to respect the group dynamic in game.
Why is it so hard to consider a larger community? Why is it that people will spew such negative rubbish about great people just so that they can ignore what we all love TOGETHER for their own selfish gratification?
Sure Eppy, Xoria and Praetyre can be 'aloof' or 'Impossible'.
I don't always like the way some people communicate their views either.. But I respect them, respect their efforts and admire their consistency.
Xoria is the player who inspired me to help noobies, Eppy is a legend. i am in RoS yet respect Eppy greatly.. (I know, weird huh?) And Praetyre is a genius. I stand in awe of the majority of this community and am honored when half of them even chat to me on skype.
Chatting to Praetyre and Treewyrm is insane..
ROS are all certifiably insane and I think Tony might be gay (but we don't judge him at all).
This is a great community, a fantastic mod, with great Admins and Really good people. Don't allow the odd selfish idiot to misrepresent us all!
If you come into my house and slap your feet on my table then justify it because you are an 'independent', I'll throw you a beating and tell you to celebrate your 'independence' elsewhere!
Wanna be an Indy? play by OUR (All of us) rules. Same goes for a faction.
RP first, alignment second!
The State of Disco is healthy and happy and it's about to become even better. (The only New Admin I don't like is Dustin cos he's too good looking to be an Admin, he should be in a boyband!)
I love the Sanctions. I'm all for order and I back my Admins all the way!
and NO.. I don't need to suck up to anyone for attention.. I get plenty in real life cos I is an emo.
kthxbai
P.S.
JihadJoe is the only Joe u wanna know!
Del is teh shizniz.
Lovecraft... awesome name... I'm thinking of putting a vinyl on the back of my car.. heh heh
' Wrote:That was the most negative positive read ever. Like a sugar bowl with salt in it.
I started reading and was like 'wow, awesome' and then I was like 'huh?' and shortly after I hit 'wtf?'
This Community is a web of complex individuals with different paradigms, belief systems and value systems. - A common ground would be impossible. We all choose the foundation Igiss has given us and work off that!
There is no negotiated server guideline. We are all guests here on someone elses server and they kindly share it with us.
Frankly, I would play here whether it was RP or PvP because the majority of the individuals here are proactive in their efforts to make it a great experience for us all.
The rules and guidelines may alter somewhat here and there, but the fact that THIS IS AN RP SERVER comes way first in any debate or negotiation.
We build our stories off whatever platform Igiss has given us and we do our best to compliment other RP groups who have built their stories off the same foundation.
I play mostly as an independent myself, but frankly it's the independents who vomit the most negativity onto these forums or inspire others to complain here because it is (mostly) the independents who refuse to respect the group dynamic in game.
Why is it so hard to consider a larger community? Why is it that people will spew such negative rubbish about great people just so that they can ignore what we all love TOGETHER for their own selfish gratification?
Sure Eppy, Xoria and Praetyre can be 'aloof' or 'Impossible'.
I don't always like the way some people communicate their views either.. But I respect them, respect their efforts and admire their consistency.
Xoria is the player who inspired me to help noobies, Eppy is a legend. i am in RoS yet respect Eppy greatly.. (I know, weird huh?) And Praetyre is a genius. I stand in awe of the majority of this community and am honored when half of them even chat to me on skype.
Chatting to Praetyre and Treewyrm is insane..
ROS are all certifiably insane and I think Tony might be gay (but we don't judge him at all).
This is a great community, a fantastic mod, with great Admins and Really good people. Don't allow the odd selfish idiot to misrepresent us all!
If you come into my house and slap your feet on my table then justify it because you are an 'independent', I'll throw you a beating and tell you to celebrate your 'independence' elsewhere!
Wanna be an Indy? play by OUR (All of us) rules. Same goes for a faction.
RP first, alignment second!
The State of Disco is healthy and happy and it's about to become even better. (The only New Admin I don't like is Dustin cos he's too good looking to be an Admin, he should be in a boyband!)
I love the Sanctions. I'm all for order and I back my Admins all the way!
and NO.. I don't need to suck up to anyone for attention.. I get plenty in real life cos I is an emo.
kthxbai
P.S.
JihadJoe is the only Joe u wanna know!
Del is teh shizniz.
Lovecraft... awesome name... I'm thinking of putting a vinyl on the back of my car.. heh heh