A look back at the Junker and Hogosha IDs.

[AeternusDoleo]

Curious, there was a problem with the Hogosha. Especially around Narita. Continually using a bunch of gunboats and big dragons to blow up ore traders, then claiming to be innocent when the KN and KSP show - and the KN/KSP could not do a thing about it unless they actually saw them shooting traders. The issue with the junkers was before my time but from what I was told was similar. Both cases were considered gameplay problems, which led to the IDs being adjusted.

Please leave your tinfoil hat at the door next time. This is not flood.

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Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.

Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.

[Jack_Henderson]

I am still very much against any sort of "lawful piracy".

Experience has shown that the worst type of players flocks to these "borderline IDs" and you perfectly know what went down in Kusari when a number of (today permabanned) players were pretty much owning Kusari with their Hogosha Gbs, trolling the sh**** out of everybody, Mr. West-Kusari included.

We do not need more of these loopholes reintroduced, so that idiots can (ab)use them - because this is what will happen.

So... definitely: No. And No.

Let's not repeat the mess we had just because we have forgotten that it was total crap that led to the necessary changes.

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+ IMG| DISCORD: https://discord.gg/TWrGWjp
+ IMG| IS RECRUITING: Click to find out more!

[sindroms]

Mh. If house lawfuls can shoot quasi's on sight then there isn't any issue anymore really. If the Hogs camp Narita or the Junkies camp Pittsburgh or something like that, easy enough to dock a few battleboats there to deal with it.

My point exactly. IRP consequences imposed by actual players would be better than just forbidding it in the first place.

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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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[sindroms]

I am still very much against any sort of "lawful piracy".

Experience has shown that the worst type of players flocks to these "borderline IDs" and you perfectly know what went down in Kusari when a number of (today permabanned) players were pretty much owning Kusari with their Hogosha Gbs, trolling the sh**** out of everybody, Mr. West-Kusari included.

We do not need more of these loopholes reintroduced, so that idiots can (ab)use them - because this is what will happen.

So... definitely: No. And No.

Let's not repeat the mess we had just because we have forgotten that it was total crap that led to the necessary changes.

Yes, but back then lawfuls could not attack these IDs without a valid reason. Now they can and thus they can engage these people regardless of what they say they might have or have not done. See the difference from then and now?

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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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[Jack_Henderson]

KSP wouldn't attack a well-played Hogosha today. He would say something about "gaijin" and "<3 Kusari! lol *kisses*" and that's it.

You focus on "your actions have consequences", but the consequences never had any impact.

The lolwuttery on the Junker ID continued until their ID was nerfed.
The repetition of the story happened with Hogosha ID. There was tons of FR5s and sanctions, then the ID got nerfed and it stopped.
Then there were the Gallic Junkers, who were pirating in NB and selling at Planet NB. There were FR5s, sanctions and the ID was nerfed.

See the pattern?

There have always been reasons for these sanctions. And the latter two cases are very well-known to me because I filed a lot of FR5s/reports myself.

Also: You point at "consequences from your rp". There are none. A well-known group of players proved that the -1.0 rephack doesn't work. Another group you know made it their hobby to switch their CAU8s between ships after they got FR5ed to hell. And back they were. Consequences do not work. The attacker never loses anything of value, so it is cheap to point to "there are consequences".

Consequences... yes. The nerfs are the consequences.

So: Definitely... No. And No. And forever No.
I have had enough of the idiot type of players that love these IDs.
They are the reason why Hogosha, GJ, Junkers cannot have nice IDs.
Thank them.

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+ IMG| DISCORD: https://discord.gg/TWrGWjp
+ IMG| IS RECRUITING: Click to find out more!

[sindroms]

know what went down in Kusari when a number of (today permabanned) players were pretty much owning Kusari with their Hogosha Gbs

If they are permabanned, supposedly, or at least forced to stay under the radar and not cause such moments, why should they still be nerfed then? Any player abusing an ID for such things is a subject of OORP consequences as well, but this time carried out by the admin team, if the ingame consequences carried out by players do not have any effect or physically cannot have any effect.

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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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[Jack_Henderson]

If they are permabanned, supposedly, or at least forced to stay under the radar and not cause such moments, why should they still be nerfed then?

Yes. Because we both know they are around and that "banned" doesn't mean anything at all.

Any player abusing an ID for such things is a subject of OORP consequences as well, but this time carried out by the admin team, if the ingame consequences carried out by players do not have any effect or physically cannot have any effect.

You don't get it, do you?

What consequences can your semi-lawful actions have? The worst thing would be an FR5 from the House lawfuls. This takes a long an difficult screening procedure by skilled veterans, then forum "rp" (which is no fun, bc discussing FR5s is always crappy and oorp), then weeks/months of waiting for a rep-change that is by no means effective.

So you can go on, for likely weeks or months before anything happens at all. When it happens, you do not even remember why and the repchange feels like a sanction. You request proof, then PM me and flame me. Happened in almost 100 % of the cases.

The consequence of being shot doesn't count for real because if you die, you respawn and you lost nothing. If you succeed, you robbed profit and time, trolled someone successfully and sold the cargo in front of him at the max sellpoint that he was so close to reaching.

As a sidenote: Do you even know how hard it is to prove this? You need an unconspicuous ship docked at the lawful selling point that you log quickly after your transport blew up (they never operate far from the selling points). You have to get the screens right, which is an art of its own. And Hogosha used to F1 after they robbed in Kusari, then sell at a later point because they ofc learnt how that oorp hunt is played.

And all of that, all that oorp crap that is no fun at all for the receiving end... for what? So that one idiot feels "consequences" after a month that he can undo with some bribing or an armor transfer?

Tnx, no. Find other means for your borderline rp. These 3 IDs have neen burnt for good reasons.

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+ IMG| IS RECRUITING: Click to find out more!

[sindroms]

Calm down, mate, no need to point fingers and get worked up. I am simply trying to address the issue at hand with my own biased views and reply to your info with my own. As to what was said above, I myself have seen people slapped fairly quick by the admin team without a FR5 request even needed. And if such things are bothersome to report, then simply find other means to deal with it irp, while the oorp part is dealt with.

Creating a group to combat the problem is a fairly efficient way to do so, by the way.

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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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[Zayne Carrick]

As one of FR5ed GJ in New Berlin I want to put down my 5 cents.
SPACE IS DANGEROUS PLACE!
If you're going alone on your 5ker with cargohold full of ore, 10milordai is not the worst thing which can happen to you.
If you'll use escort or battletransport with proper CAU, single cargopirate(and we're usually acting alone) can't do anything with you, except for dying.

[Sabru]

Now all the problems that caused the ID nerfages are before my time,

but when they cant really do much questionable stuff now......

you might as well label them lawful because they arent really quasi-lawful anymore then.

I think sindroms has a point here....

since the beta status will probably run for a while, why not edit the IDs and see what happens.

Things are going to be rolled back anyway, and the IDs can ust be changed back at the end if it doesnt work out.

Personally, i'd like to be able to see junkers actually be the ambiguous people the lore makes them sound like (to me at least).

I think Spazzy has provided enough ideas for it to be given a shot at least.

besides, the changes suggested could bring life to both factions because, well, if a junker saw a hogosha pirating in bretonia or liberty they'd probably want to defend their 'turf' and vice-versa in kusari. RP and pew ensue and other factions could get involved as well.

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