Merging components on Vanilla ships

[Eppy]

I decided that no, it isn't necessary, and I think having weaknesses in ships gives the game more flavor; it's another factor that needs to be taken into consideration, and that adds complexity and variety. There are obviously extreme cases that ought to be resolved (Osiris, Kusari BS/GB), but it's largely unnecessary.

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[Seth Karlo]

Yes to the merge, but no to the increase on the Nuclear mine...I find that even in a non vanilla ship a Nuke mine can blow me up from full hull (Avenger).

Also, it'll be a real pain if people spend a million on brand new weapons, and then lose them all when they get hit by a Nuke mine.

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Signature by Sleipnir.

[mjolnir]

Yes to the merge, but no to the increase on the Nuclear mine...I find that even in a non vanilla ship a Nuke mine can blow me up from full hull (Avenger).

Avenger is a vanilla ship (since the model is just upped Juni's defender)

Complete list of vanilla ships (some don't look like it):

LFs: Decurion, Griffin, Hyssar, Hyena, Liberator, Phantom, Scimitar, See Serpent, Wyrm
HFs: Centurion, Hammerhead
VHFs:Avenger, Blood Dragon, Chimaera, Eagle, Guardian, Manta, Nepthys, Sabre, Templar, Titan, Werewolf, Wrath

GBs: Bretonia GB, Kusari GB, Rhienland, GB
Cruisers: Bret Dess., Kusari Dess., Liberty Cruiser, Rheinland Cr.
Battleships: Bretonia, Kusari, Liberty Dread., Rheinland BS, Osiris

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Jinx]

no, i don t think the nuke mine must be increased. - nor any other exposive. since i fight a lot with missiles ( usually a combination of sidewinder + cannonball ) - i think i know the effect on both, vanilla and non vanilla ships good enough, too.

the "mission" of the missiles against a non vanilla ship is totally different to that of a vanilla ship. - on a vanilla ship, i fire to destroy. - on a non vanilla ship i fire to rip it off subsystems - and for that, ... the missiles work well enough.

i had a fight against a taidan bomber in my BHG bomber. - 4 strafe runs left the enemy bomber with nothing but his supernova at a questionable stage of damage. - all other equipment was gone. the bomber itself was still fairly intact, but useless.

increasing explosives damage can result in a lot of such fights - fights where the enemy ship is still 99.9% intact ... but has to retreat cause all of its equipment is ripped off...... and that will increase ooRPness ( suicides, cause people are too lazy or ooRP to repair and refit in roleplay )

if a nuke mine was increased to 20k - a single mine will blow up most of the lesser equipment like thrusters, train CD - and some weapons. equipment like cheeta thrusters and supernovas will be damaged to like 50% by a single direct hit ( 10 million repairs for a cheeta then - around 4 millions for a supernova ... )

and laying a dense minefield and blowing it up with a train CD isn t really hard to do - even i can do it ... and there is little chance to escape it in a dogfight.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[mjolnir]

i had a fight against a taidan bomber in my BHG bomber. - 4 strafe runs left the enemy bomber with nothing but his supernova at a questionable stage of damage. - all other equipment was gone. the bomber itself was still fairly intact, but useless.

With what missiles (and how many) and what guns did he have?

EDIT: The problem is that it can still kill capships with the SN.

if a nuke mine was increased to 20k - a single mine will blow up most of the lesser equipment like thrusters, train CD - and some weapons. equipment like cheeta thrusters and supernovas will be damaged to like 50% by a single direct hit ( 10 million repairs for a cheeta then - around 4 millions for a supernova ... )

Now a single nuke will kill you... is that better? Making it blow off the lesser equipment and get all guns to red is reasonable compromise imho.

And btw.. Enh. Thruster can take more than 3 nukes now in my experience.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Jinx]

what missiles: - wrote it... 1 cannonball, 1 sidewinder ... yes, i know its a lot of firepower in a single volley - the rest of the equipment was 3 improved deb

what weapons did he have: as far as i could see - it was the usual bomber stuff..dunno - i have better things to do than to scan people when i fight

that is why i wrote - the function of the missiles is to destroy subsystems on non vanilla ships.

question is - do we want explosives to blow ships up - or are we fine with destroying subsystems. - if the missile damage is doubled - can we double the subsystem hitpoints, too? - that way, it only really affects the hull and hasn t a greater impact on the equipment.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[chopper]

I voted NO. Maybe I'm biased since I'm a nuke whore, but that's the reason too.

Fights will be prolonged and I don't like it.. At all.

If all ships become like non-vanilla, I suggest decreasing armor to some 7k average for VHF's, with 10-11k for tanks (Titan, Templar, Werewolf etc).
Bomber armor would also need a decrease.

Even with these changes fights will be prolonged, and that is something I don't like.. At all.
I can already see myself flying bombers only.. Oh well.:yes:

Also, just to add, I'm flying only Vanilla fighters (except my Viper, which is out of use for some time).
So, no, I'm not a Nuke whore in a non-vanilla ship. That sucks. I'm a real nuke whore!:)

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[Jinx]

about capital ships... there is a good thing about it - we could get the old flak cannons back - the ones with 1000 blast radius and 6000 damage - they won t kill an osiris anymore but might be used well to fight fighters off.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[mjolnir]

question is - do we want explosives to blow ships up - or are we fine with destroying subsystems. - if the missile damage is doubled - can we double the subsystem hitpoints, too? - that way, it only really affects the hull and hasn t a greater impact on the equipment.

I think so yes.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Lucend]

I voted no only because I like to watch my ship turn from sleek new to ragged and bent-up. In singleplayer, sometimes your ship would get several wings and fins blown off in the course of a long and brutal campaign. Having that effect is really very important to me, but that's not the way the server is going.

More and more newer models without the blow-away wings are making their way into the mod. Then again, if we merged the models there are some ships that would simply be outmatching every other ship. Right now, most people can agree that the Sabre is the best VHF out there. If the models got merged we would have to rebalance the Sabre, along with others.

The way I see it, we're either going to have to make complex models for the non-vanilla, or make complex rebalances for the vanilla soon-to-be-merged. Two mountains nobody wants to climb, me thinks.

Really though, either way I'd prolly be happy. :laugh:

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"The thirteen saloons that had lined the one street of Seney had not left a trace. The foundations of the Mansion House hotel stuck up above the ground. The stone was chipped and split by the fire. It was all that was left of the town of Seney. Even the surface had been burned off the ground.
Nick looked at the burned-over stretch of hillside, where he had expected to find the scattered houses of the town and then walked down the railroad track to the bridge over the river. The river was there."

Osaika Moto, the Fall and Rise of a Kusari Farmer

Juan Lucendez, √ Corsair