Let's not put contraband label on items that doesn't have contraband profit rates. Else some newcommers might be "pirated" by lawfuls and be repulsed by the idea that they cannot do that and that.
(11-26-2014, 02:32 PM)Laura C. Wrote: So, I see here very important difference between Blood diamonds and jillies. First - diamonds are sold only by Hessians and they are important source of money. Simply they are still diamonds but they have even wider use than standard diamonds because they are different than them and thus interesting as jewellery and of course as symbol of resistance against government.
Jillies on the other hand are grown on Stuttgart for centuries (as infocard say: "A native species of Planet Stuttgart, Blue Jillies have been cultivated for centuries."), way much longer before LWB appeared. Putting them on contraband list would be another final nail on the rests of the local farmers and making situation even worse (yeah, more LWB, that´s what government need right now). Also, jillies are far less profitable than diamonds and harder to obtain (because you can secretly mine in space, but where you can secretly grow and harvest large amounts of flowers on the government controlled planet, hm?).
Tl;dr: All Blood diamonds are made by Hessians and money from it goes to them, but not all jillies are made by LWB and not all money from it goes to them.
And by the way, just because terrorist organisation starts to use as symbol some traditional local product, does this mean we will declare it as contraband? Okay then, be right back, I´m going to ask Unioners to start brewing Rheinbier and put it as their symbol, and VWA to start baking strudels. Rheinlanders can drink wine and eat muffins, right?
Blood Diamond infocard states that beside it's color it is completely identical to regular diamonds, physical properties are same, chemical properties are same, etc. Why don't Rhein mining corps mine it the same way they mine regular diamonds then? Because it's considered a contraband by the Rhein govt. Why? Maybe because somebody bound the metaphorical meaning to it's reddish tint that it has been stained by the spilled blood of countless Red Hessians slain by the authoritarian regime of Rheinland and that spreading it is a show of support to the Red Hessian Movement? Or does any of you know any other reason?
And then here are the Blue Jillies. Infocard states that it's a flower, which, similar to Blood Diamonds, became a symbol of support to a movement openly opposing the regime. Yet it did not become a contraband yet.
Both Blood Diamonds and Blue Jillies have been existing before the arrival of Red Hessians or the LWB, since then both became a symbol of their respective groups, both are sold on at least one of the bases of said unlawful groups, thus the spreading of both can be considered both moral and financial support of their respecive groups.
And yet one of them is a contraband, the other one is not. Why?
Why did Blood Diamonds become a contraband if not for their metaphorical meaning? And if they became contraband because of that, why didn't Blue Jillies became contraband just as well, based on the very same logic? What else is the reason, what is the exact logic behind chosing so differently in so similar cases?
Distinctive for their reddish tint, Hessian Blood Diamonds are identical to Kruger's white diamonds for industrial purposes, but their unique coloration has made them the preferred choice for anyone wanting to make a political statement against the Rheinland state's policies. Ideological allies and sympathizers of the Red Hessians have been quick to import Blood Diamonds as a show of support for the Hessians' cause, while the Rheinland government is ruthlessly trying to block their export.
A native species of Planet Stuttgart, Blue Jillies have been cultivated for centuries. Because they require a high oxygen level and specific nitrogen contents in the soil to grow, during the last two decades the environmental changes caused by Synth Foods' business practices have caused significant decreases in the quality of their growth. Despite this, they continue to be very popular because of their vibrant sapphire blue petals and strong, pleasant aroma. They are currently a source of controversy as many of the dispossessed Stuttgart farmers blame their recent decline on Synth Foods, which has resulted in some LWB-supporters wearing the flower as a symbol of pride and solidarity.
ooRPly we have to deal with fact that Blue Jillies were added later while Blood diamonds are ingame much longer (from vanilla? I can´t remember now).
The difference is generally that miners can simply continue mining white diamonds, but farmers from Stuttgart doesn´t have any other unique flower to grow and sell. Any move against it will only give LWB and Hessians more arguments and also new people in their ranks from former farmers who will lose their jobs after jillies will be declared illegal. And Rheinland can´t afford this in it´s current situation.
Also, diamonds and red diamonds are just commodity. Jillies are one of the symbols of the planet Stuttgart. It´s like declaring tulips contraband in Netherland. It would be another spit to the face of people of Stuttgart (after what government did with Synth Foods there) and very unpopular move between all Rheinlanders generally because as infocard says, "they continue to be very popular because of their vibrant sapphire blue petals and strong, pleasant aroma". Touch the jillies and you will get even more disappointed or even angry Rheinlanders.
And regarding to the issue of symbols, I think I made my point clear already
(11-26-2014, 02:32 PM)Laura C. Wrote: And by the way, just because terrorist organisation starts to use as symbol some traditional local product, does this mean we will declare it as contraband? Okay then, be right back, I´m going to ask Unioners to start brewing Rheinbier and put it as their symbol, and VWA to start baking strudels. Rheinlanders can drink wine and eat muffins, right?
(11-26-2014, 05:49 PM)Snak3 Wrote: I thought RH just colors Diamons and boom, Blood Diamonds.
Nope:
Quote:What makes a diamond red in colour?
Unlike other fancy colour diamonds that derive their colour from impurities such a nitrogen and borono, red diamonds are made purely from carbon, just like colourless diamonds. The red colour of the diamond is created by a rare deformation in its atomic structure, also known as ‘plastic deformation’.
When a red diamond is retrieved from underground and light is allowed to pass through the irregular lattice, the unusual bending of the light causes the diamonds to reflect a ruby-like colour.
(11-26-2014, 05:39 PM)Laura C. Wrote: The difference is generally that miners can simply continue mining white diamonds, but farmers from Stuttgart doesn´t have any other unique flower to grow and sell. Any move against it will only give LWB and Hessians more arguments and also new people in their ranks from former farmers who will lose their jobs after jillies will be declared illegal. And Rheinland can´t afford this in it´s current situation.
Why do they require unique things? Can't they just farm regular crops like wheat and the like, go all "bio" like today's green folks? If the point of leaving Jillies alone is to let LWB finance themselves so that tensions won't become worse, then with the same effort Blood Diamonds could become legal to ease the tension with Hessians. Or just simply to let Kruger mine it as an additional influx of resources to get Rheinland out of the financial crap it has been slipping into in the past years.
(11-26-2014, 05:39 PM)Laura C. Wrote: Also, diamonds and red diamonds are just commodity. Jillies are one of the symbols of the planet Stuttgart. It´s like declaring tulips contraband in Netherland. It would be another spit to the face of people of Stuttgart (after what government did with Synth Foods there) and very unpopular move between all Rheinlanders generally because as infocard says, "they continue to be very popular because of their vibrant sapphire blue petals and strong, pleasant aroma". Touch the jillies and you will get even more disappointed or even angry Rheinlanders.
Blue Jillies did not become a symbol of Stuttgart, it became a symbol of Synth Foods crippling Stuttgart and of the fight against it, and against the government letting Synth Foods do what they do. At least that's what is in the infocard. That it is a symbol of opposition. Blood Diamonds were declared contraband for this very reason, didn't they?
So Rheinland government cannot afford the luxury of having more internal enemies, but can afford the luxury of keeping the old ones. Right?
(11-26-2014, 05:39 PM)Laura C. Wrote: And regarding to the issue of symbols, I think I made my point clear already
And by that exact point Blood Diamonds should be legal. After all, they are just diamonds which "just because terrorist organisation starts to use as symbol" should not be considered contraband, should they?
(11-26-2014, 05:39 PM)Laura C. Wrote: The difference is generally that miners can simply continue mining white diamonds, but farmers from Stuttgart doesn´t have any other unique flower to grow and sell. Any move against it will only give LWB and Hessians more arguments and also new people in their ranks from former farmers who will lose their jobs after jillies will be declared illegal. And Rheinland can´t afford this in it´s current situation.
Why do they require unique things? Can't they just farm regular crops like wheat and the like, go all "bio" like today's green folks?
Go to Netherlands and ask producers of tulips there same question. What answer you think you will get?
(11-26-2014, 06:08 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: If the point of leaving Jillies alone is to let LWB finance themselves so that tensions won't become worse, then with the same effort Blood Diamonds could become legal to ease the tension with Hessians. Or just simply to let Kruger mine it as an additional influx of resources to get Rheinland out of the financial crap it has been slipping into in the past years.
It´s not about tension with LWB or Hessians, it´s about tension with simple citizens of Stuttgart and mainly local farmers who grow and sell jillies for living. LWB attitude won´t change no matter if jillies will be legal or not, and same goes for Hessians and blood diamonds. But at the moment, some law-abiding citizens of Rheinland makes their living by growing and selling jillies while no law-abiding citizens are making living by mining and selling blood diamonds.
(11-26-2014, 06:08 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:
(11-26-2014, 05:39 PM)Laura C. Wrote: Also, diamonds and red diamonds are just commodity. Jillies are one of the symbols of the planet Stuttgart. It´s like declaring tulips contraband in Netherland. It would be another spit to the face of people of Stuttgart (after what government did with Synth Foods there) and very unpopular move between all Rheinlanders generally because as infocard says, "they continue to be very popular because of their vibrant sapphire blue petals and strong, pleasant aroma". Touch the jillies and you will get even more disappointed or even angry Rheinlanders.
Blue Jillies did not become a symbol of Stuttgart, it became a symbol of Synth Foods crippling Stuttgart and of the fight against it, and against the government letting Synth Foods do what they do. At least that's what is in the infocard. That it is a symbol of opposition. Blood Diamonds were declared contraband for this very reason, didn't they?
No, they became contraband becase Hessians make bloody much money by selling them. Try that with flowers... There is effort to hit income of enemy as the first motive, not any symbolism.
Also, infocard state this:
Quote:They are currently a source of controversy as many of the dispossessed Stuttgart farmers blame their recent decline on Synth Foods, which has resulted in some LWB-supporters wearing the flower as a symbol of pride and solidarity.
So first, SOME LWB supporters wear them, not whole movement/organization. And they are symbol of solidarity (with farmers who lost their job) but also pride. Simply pride of tradition, tradition of farmers of Stuttgart and Stuttgart itself, of what the region/planet used to be. Or what pride you think it means? And nothing in infocard actually says it became symbol of fight against Synth Foods and government. Pride and solidarity, that´s what written there.
(11-26-2014, 06:14 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: wait is this a new commodity that was added?????
No, it´s game for quite some time, I think even from 4.86.
(11-26-2014, 06:52 PM)Laura C. Wrote: Go to Netherlands and ask producers of tulips there same question. What answer you think you will get?
Are tulips there produced by locals who's existence is threatened by foreign multinational competitors? Are they worn by anti-government groups to solidarize with said locals? Has Netherland just been almost crippled in a war they just froze before losing totally? Are revolts common there lately? I don't think the two cases are comparable.
(11-26-2014, 06:52 PM)Laura C. Wrote: It´s not about tension with LWB or Hessians, it´s about tension with simple citizens of Stuttgart and mainly local farmers who grow and sell jillies for living. LWB attitude won´t change no matter if jillies will be legal or not, and same goes for Hessians and blood diamonds. But at the moment, some law-abiding citizens of Rheinland makes their living by growing and selling jillies while no law-abiding citizens are making living by mining and selling blood diamonds.
The same way could have been existing some law-abiding citizens in the past who made a fortune out of mining and selling Blood Diamonds, and who suffered greatly because of it getting outlawed (maybe many even chosen to join Hessians because of it, who knows...). But of course those were different times, weren't they? When Rheinland could afford having Red Hessians rebelling agianst itself. Blood Diamonds are no different in this regard either, lawful miners could just as well make a fortune out of it as lawful farmers do out of growing Jillies on their farms. And the only thing in their way to exploit this potential source of income is that Blood Diamonds are considered contraband, effectively granting Hessians a monopoly in the distribution of it.
Yes, this way Hessians have no legal competitors at mining Blood Diamonds, isn't this a little bit counter-intuitive, seeing one of your main concerns is that it is their main source of income, being a reason for it to be considered contraband? If that is the only reason why it is outlawed, then technically the Rhein govt itself created the reason to outlaw it by outlawing it, which goes against causality where cause supposed to precede the effect.
(11-26-2014, 06:52 PM)Laura C. Wrote: No, they became contraband becase Hessians make bloody much money by selling them. Try that with flowers... There is effort to hit income of enemy as the first motive, not any symbolism.
Basically what I wrote above. Make Blood Diamonds legal again, unleash your corporations on them, and watch their main source of income taken from the Hessians. You can still have the Militär and the Police to watch over corporate miners and haulers, as well as legal backing, something I consider significant advantage over mere renegade miners.
(11-26-2014, 06:52 PM)Laura C. Wrote: Also, infocard state this:
Quote:They are currently a source of controversy as many of the dispossessed Stuttgart farmers blame their recent decline on Synth Foods, which has resulted in some LWB-supporters wearing the flower as a symbol of pride and solidarity.
So first, SOME LWB supporters wear them, not whole movement/organization. And they are symbol of solidarity (with farmers who lost their job) but also pride. Simply pride of tradition, tradition of farmers of Stuttgart and Stuttgart itself, of what the region/planet used to be. Or what pride you think it means? And nothing in infocard actually says it became symbol of fight against Synth Foods and government. Pride and solidarity, that´s what written there.
Pride in daring to oppose the regime in the name of a good cause, solidarity towards the farmers who have to suffer from the effects of Synth Foods and the incompetency and ignorancy of the government. That's what I read out of it. You know, we are still talking about LWB-supporters wearing it, not just some random local farmers.
Synth Foods is the reason local farmers suffer on Stuttgart, Synth Foods is blamed for the decrease in quality of the growth of Blue Jillies, Synth Foods is the main target of LWB (plus some govt officials supporting SF) and LWB-supporters wear Blue Jillies as a sign of pride and solidarity. Now do the math.
The LWB, or Landwirtrechtbewegung (farmers' rights movement), is believed to be engaged in attacks on Synth Foods operations and sympathetic government officials in retaliation for Rheinland concessions to the Liberty Food conglomerate. This faction is a faithful ally of the Hessians, therefore considered hostile by the Corsairs. However, the LWB attempts not to interfere into the war between Corsairs and Outcasts and stay neutral towards groups that joined either alliance.