(09-15-2014, 10:29 AM)Zen_Mechanics Wrote: Not all is final, subject to change.
Millitarized Zoners ? Not this again...:
No, not millitarized - to be accurate, Militant - If you don't know how to know the two - you have no reason to even go on with this arguement.
What if you are caugth, What would the factions do ?
Nothing, They are doing nothing to benefit zoners as a whole and are only focused on themselves, So it wouldn't effect them anyway - since they would remove any responsibility. This is not an attack, but a long time of obeservation and evidence. 1. Caught doing what? What's your cause? What are you militating for?
2. And you're already talking of some other faction, not a zoner one.
Is this really what Zoners are to you?
Zoners to me are undefined, However I consider them liberatrians ( Infact I would argue that they are ) - The artificial bubble thats being imposed by the lack of creativity by the current factions, and this strange irrational hatred toward zoners - along with the lie of neutrality poisened the minds of many - And which is why I no longer take zoners for granted. Zoners are not undefined. They are former colony members that opted for a hard life, outside of house control because they wanted more freedom. They evolved and developed ways to survive in the harsh environment outside house space, despite their decentralization. Go outside of these preset characteristics and you get something else, no longer a zoner.
Zoners work in shady ways, they hire people to do the dirty stuff for them
Indeed they do work in mysterious ways, rubbing their faces and jackboots in the face of the innocent. Okay I made that last bit up, but only because its the only thing I think of whenever I hear this question. I can't disprove the fact that many zoners do behave in this way, but my stance with this is that - its not only unwise to lay trust to someone who works for money - but to also risk being fooled by him is way more idiotic. As the phrase goes " If you want something done, do it yourself". Most of the zoners behave that way. That's what being a zoner means. If you take up guns and start killing here and there, you'll end up dead. Zoners are not a force. They rely on diplomacy and under the table deals: Outcasts start to be pushy, offer Corsairs something to counter the casts. House X is being annoying, offer the Order something to hurt House X. That's zoning.
Undermining the very basics of Zoners?
What basics, Each faction or an individual is free to define himself as he wishes, Its true that until you meet the person - you are likely to consider him the hippie-weed smoking guy that's a hundred percent peaceful - And as you know, That I do have a problem with. Putting a "civilian" character on zoners is plain wrong, Civilians are civilians, If you were around here in 4.85 or pre 4.85 you would notice that there was a specific "Civilian ID" just for that. The word "Zoners" for me, in general is nothing but a place-holder - until the person decides his ways, or path. This isn't old fashion or insane, Look at the factions and how different they are - and yet they consider themselves zoners, a living proof of my theory. Zoners are not civilians. They're zoners. Zoners are not placeholder either. They have their ways. If a zoners wants to become something else, that's his choice but then he won't be a zoner anymore.
Why are you so stubborn to go on with this idea?
I guess the only faction that I have true love, other then Kishiro - Are zoners. I have had many chances to meet amazing role-players and they all were in some point zoners - I figured zoners are a good place to start a character from scratch and let the chain of events shape him. It's easier then say, Being born as someone with already -pre determined objectives and desires and then work from there to a different way. Both ways are good, but In the zoner case - It's more dynamic. You're talking about one individual character or a faction? If it's one guy, go ahead and see where this leads. A faction made on the ideas described by you has no chance of succeeding, no more than those militaristic zoners that used to lock down a system because they felt like it.
Add more once im home.
If you have anything to say, say that in good civil tone.
Cheers'
Suggested Diplomacy ;
Hacked Rep - Generic Zoners + 0.0.7 ( Allied )
Hacked Rep - GMG + 0.06 ( Allied )
Core + 0.04 ( Core is well more wealthy and powerful ) Per role-play, Intention is to establish links with them to gain good reputation with lawful factions ( despite the fact that we reject houses, having them on good stance cant hurt anyone )
The Order +0.01 ( A potential House-like Colony, Orginization With regulations that does not exempt Zoners )
House Colonies + -0.05 - No Dock
Lawful Corporations ( Per role-play )
Other factions ( per role-play )
, Ship usage ;
Exploiting GMG and Zoner Shiplines, Capital ships included ( reversed engineering - millitary in mind, less research decks etc )
ZoI ; Per assignment, however unlimited - the conventional wisdom of go if you have something to do, otherwise stay out of there - should be enforced to avoid pointless encounters in places where theres no real intrest ).
Should be a lost fleet of the Omicroners, thought to be lost in a battle at X ( This opens the door for millitary-capitals, rather then using Livadia who would anyway reject such a thing ).
You say this has nothing to do with military, yet you mention the word at least 2 times in the final paragraphs.
(09-15-2014, 12:58 PM)Zen_Mechanics Wrote: Millitant ; Vgorously active person or group of people, combative and aggressive, especially in support of a cause. It may or may not use violence.
Millitary : Structure that's sole purpose is to use live & lethal weapons for the interest of its people/state/house ( in this case ) and is recognized as an official body.
Now let's add
Zoners: Diverse group of individuals who, for various reasons, have decided to live in the wild and unregulated systems outside colonial control.
Long story short, I'm against this idea for various reasons listed above.
Quote:The lack of creativity by the current factions.
Please don't include TAZ in your reductionism. What Zoner factions have you been in? You remind me of a player who was around last year, some guy called Tel-Aviv. Search for his threads so you don't repeat his mistakes. Cheers.
(09-15-2014, 01:30 PM)Tal Wrote: Definition of militant: combative and aggressive in support of a political or social cause, and typically favoring extreme, violent, or confrontational methods.
Here we go again.
May or may not use violence. Have you purposely forgot to mention that? Typical.
That was a direct copy/paste from a Google search.
And typically favoring extreme, violent, or confrontational methods means that yes, violence is often associated with militant groups. Even if they aren't violent, you're still combative and aggressive Zoners, in support of a political or social cause, which honestly Zoners shouldn't be supporting.
Well, I'm sure there are inRP ways of dealing with a bunch of crazy militant Zoners. This should be let through. In any case some fun might ensue from this.
I say we let him (them) do this without unnecessary out of RP obstructions. Go ahead, I'm eagerly awaiting results.
(09-15-2014, 10:29 AM)Zen_Mechanics Wrote: Not all is final, subject to change.
Millitarized Zoners ? Not this again...:
No, not millitarized - to be accurate, Militant - If you don't know how to know the two - you have no reason to even go on with this arguement.
What if you are caugth, What would the factions do ?
Nothing, They are doing nothing to benefit zoners as a whole and are only focused on themselves, So it wouldn't effect them anyway - since they would remove any responsibility. This is not an attack, but a long time of obeservation and evidence. 1. Caught doing what? What's your cause? What are you militating for?
2. And you're already talking of some other faction, not a zoner one.
Is this really what Zoners are to you?
Zoners to me are undefined, However I consider them liberatrians ( Infact I would argue that they are ) - The artificial bubble thats being imposed by the lack of creativity by the current factions, and this strange irrational hatred toward zoners - along with the lie of neutrality poisened the minds of many - And which is why I no longer take zoners for granted. Zoners are not undefined. They are former colony members that opted for a hard life, outside of house control because they wanted more freedom. They evolved and developed ways to survive in the harsh environment outside house space, despite their decentralization. Go outside of these preset characteristics and you get something else, no longer a zoner.
Zoners work in shady ways, they hire people to do the dirty stuff for them
Indeed they do work in mysterious ways, rubbing their faces and jackboots in the face of the innocent. Okay I made that last bit up, but only because its the only thing I think of whenever I hear this question. I can't disprove the fact that many zoners do behave in this way, but my stance with this is that - its not only unwise to lay trust to someone who works for money - but to also risk being fooled by him is way more idiotic. As the phrase goes " If you want something done, do it yourself". Most of the zoners behave that way. That's what being a zoner means. If you take up guns and start killing here and there, you'll end up dead. Zoners are not a force. They rely on diplomacy and under the table deals: Outcasts start to be pushy, offer Corsairs something to counter the casts. House X is being annoying, offer the Order something to hurt House X. That's zoning.
Undermining the very basics of Zoners?
What basics, Each faction or an individual is free to define himself as he wishes, Its true that until you meet the person - you are likely to consider him the hippie-weed smoking guy that's a hundred percent peaceful - And as you know, That I do have a problem with. Putting a "civilian" character on zoners is plain wrong, Civilians are civilians, If you were around here in 4.85 or pre 4.85 you would notice that there was a specific "Civilian ID" just for that. The word "Zoners" for me, in general is nothing but a place-holder - until the person decides his ways, or path. This isn't old fashion or insane, Look at the factions and how different they are - and yet they consider themselves zoners, a living proof of my theory. Zoners are not civilians. They're zoners. Zoners are not placeholder either. They have their ways. If a zoners wants to become something else, that's his choice but then he won't be a zoner anymore.
Why are you so stubborn to go on with this idea?
I guess the only faction that I have true love, other then Kishiro - Are zoners. I have had many chances to meet amazing role-players and they all were in some point zoners - I figured zoners are a good place to start a character from scratch and let the chain of events shape him. It's easier then say, Being born as someone with already -pre determined objectives and desires and then work from there to a different way. Both ways are good, but In the zoner case - It's more dynamic. You're talking about one individual character or a faction? If it's one guy, go ahead and see where this leads. A faction made on the ideas described by you has no chance of succeeding, no more than those militaristic zoners that used to lock down a system because they felt like it.
Add more once im home.
If you have anything to say, say that in good civil tone.
Cheers'
Suggested Diplomacy ;
Hacked Rep - Generic Zoners + 0.0.7 ( Allied )
Hacked Rep - GMG + 0.06 ( Allied )
Core + 0.04 ( Core is well more wealthy and powerful ) Per role-play, Intention is to establish links with them to gain good reputation with lawful factions ( despite the fact that we reject houses, having them on good stance cant hurt anyone )
The Order +0.01 ( A potential House-like Colony, Orginization With regulations that does not exempt Zoners )
House Colonies + -0.05 - No Dock
Lawful Corporations ( Per role-play )
Other factions ( per role-play )
, Ship usage ;
Exploiting GMG and Zoner Shiplines, Capital ships included ( reversed engineering - millitary in mind, less research decks etc )
ZoI ; Per assignment, however unlimited - the conventional wisdom of go if you have something to do, otherwise stay out of there - should be enforced to avoid pointless encounters in places where theres no real intrest ).
Should be a lost fleet of the Omicroners, thought to be lost in a battle at X ( This opens the door for millitary-capitals, rather then using Livadia who would anyway reject such a thing ).
You say this has nothing to do with military, yet you mention the word at least 2 times in the final paragraphs.
(09-15-2014, 12:58 PM)Zen_Mechanics Wrote: Millitant ; Vgorously active person or group of people, combative and aggressive, especially in support of a cause. It may or may not use violence.
Millitary : Structure that's sole purpose is to use live & lethal weapons for the interest of its people/state/house ( in this case ) and is recognized as an official body.
Now let's add
Zoners: Diverse group of individuals who, for various reasons, have decided to live in the wild and unregulated systems outside colonial control.
Long story short, I'm against this idea for various reasons listed above.
Snoopy@ Yes, Zoner ID does not fit the data, but a bridge corner
Mao@ Flying Popcorn machines doesn't really make an image of a character who is millitant, nor does a research, explorer vessel or dare I say colony ships. Because theres no such thing as "millitant ships" ( although I think there should ) im forced to use millitary-ships, because it is the only type of ship that gets close enough to the characters.
Further more, Your analogy of zoners is your analogy alone and Zoners are not Dogma. Zoners are many things, including ex-bounty hunters, ex-rogues, hell ex-core too, Each zoner is different then others, some may relate - some may not, Zoners are a place-holder, unless you are willing to give a name to each zoner who feels different, or approaches things differently. The problem to begin with is your analogy of them, not mine. I am an open minded casuality looking carefuly of things, but one thing that I hate the most - is scripture, and dogma - and you are describing your comments as such. No where have I said what zoners are, All I said is that they can be whoever they want to be. Don't be quick to respond.
Freelancer ID, what you're looking for here is Freelancer ID. It seems you just want an excuse to use caps and 5ks. Zoners left cozy house space to avoid politics and conflict, not to embroil themselves in more dangerous waters, hence why its confusing that they have capitals period and not a new "research class" much like liners are a subset of transports.
Quote:The lack of creativity by the current factions.
Please don't include TAZ in your reductionism. What Zoner factions have you been in? You remind me of a player who was around last year, some guy called Tel-Aviv. Search for his threads so you don't repeat his mistakes. Cheers.
that's rich coming from a faction that's being preaching something last year, yet doing the exact same thing - Astonished but not surprised, And don't worry - TAZ isn't remotely connected to it, And theres no possible way of even talking with the likes of you ( and I do mean that inrp ofcourse ) - Yeah you pacifists are truth seekers with combat ships, am I wrong?
(09-15-2014, 01:46 PM)KaiserDietz Wrote: Freelancer ID, what you're looking for here is Freelancer ID. It seems you just want an excuse to use caps and 5ks. Zoners left cozy house space to avoid politics and conflict, not to embroil themselves in more dangerous waters, hence why its confusing that they have capitals period and not a new "research class" much like liners are a subset of transports.
As I said, My passion is with generic zoners, not the priests in baffin, nor the corporation of OSI, or Phoenix - Generic Zoners - A place to start toward something else, Like the above factions. Plus, its a very poor arguement to suggest 5k's and capital ships, Yes they are fun - but I'm not in the freelancer market, and this thread isn't about them.