No no, you got me wrong. I meant weaker in damage while keeping the refire at 4.0. Dulzians and Solarises are not 4.0, and they don't really do much damage, thusly, they have both "bad-sides". Again, I am saying this from MY point of view, some people think that Dulzians are the best weapons (they aren't) because they like higher refire. I don't think that I am wrong when I say that most people don't like high refire.
What I meant by these civi 4.0's having lower damage is, that they should have lower damage then the very powerful faction 4.0's like Widows, Hellflurries and Krakens. You can't compare them to Solarises and Dulzians 'cuz they are different refire rates. But, I can compare them to Phoenixes, which have 625 projectile speed.
What I suggested was, give these civi 4.0's some 700/750 projectile speed, but lover the damage. Thats what 4.0's are all about, no? Speed in both projectile and fire rate, and if they had moderate damage, they would be quite good. Or am I wrong?
' Wrote:What I suggested was, give these civi 4.0's some 700/750 projectile speed, but lover the damage. Thats what 4.0's are all about, no? Speed in both projectile and fire rate, and if they had moderate damage, they would be quite good. Or am I wrong?
No, that's what maybe half the 4.0s are about. You're forgetting the Kusarians, Corsairs, Mollies, Hogosha, Unioners, The Order, [...] who have 600 4.0s, a few of these have 650.
They wouldn't be worse than just the very powerful faction guns. Not even only worse than all faction 4.0s. They should be worse than all faction guns, or at least than some faction guns of all factions (some have variants). I don't want to see whole factions switching to civilian guns over their own.
That can be achieved in two ways.
1) If there are still factions with unreasonably bad guns, balance those
2) (the unavoidable one) The civilian guns will, frankly, have to suck. They can still be usable, but they won't be "quite good".
Yes there are faction guns that are 4.0 and have 600 projectile speed, I never said that. But am I the only one that thinks that 4.0 weapons with projectile speed of 600 makes absolutely no sense?
From those faction weapons that you mentioned, the Salamancas do 530 damage, the Trefoils do 580 damage, Order Reapers do 560 damage (Disinfectors, mind you, have 520 damage and low speed but are very energy efficient). They have sucky speed yes, but, they do quite some damage. And when you compare that to Phoenixes which are currently the only 4.0 weapons available to anyone (note that they are codenames and hence expensive even if they suck), and when you take the fact that Phoenixes only do 500 damage with 625 speed, how is that balanced? Please tell me.
Thats why I suggested that these civi weapons have lower damage (what the hell keep them even at 480 damage) but give them speed! Not everyone likes higher speed weapons, someone will choose those that do higher damage, but at least they will have a choice, thats all I'm asking for, a choice.
Meh. I don't care if the civie guns will have lower damage. But please make then use an adequate amount of energy then please. Not like PGs which are in the upper 5th of the Energy/s list while only dealing slightly more damage than Flashpoints...
If the numbers on those new guns are reasonable, people will use them.
I believe I've posted my opinion in older threads over and over. Even an standard 4.00 Civi gun would be Much better than nothing! Currently Civilians have literary No Weapons to use. Even Ramming does more damage than Splashpoints, and FYI, Flashpoint has The Lowest Hull dps in Class 9 Hullbusters, So don't argue if someone calls it useless. Civilians seriously could use a decent (Not 'Uber', but not 'suxy' either) Refire 4.00 or 3.03 Hull buster.
' Wrote:(the unavoidable one) The civilian guns will, frankly, have to suck. They can still be usable, but they won't be "quite good".
This doesn't mean they must Suck! It just means they shouldn't be better than Faction Guns so players from Factions which have similar guns won't prefer the Civi ones.
(Sure, if we have Civi Refire 2.00s, 3.03s, 4.00s and 5.88s Players from Factions like GMG who don't like Photon Guns can use Civi refire 3.03s or such, but a Faction like Outcasts who have Two of the best Refire 3.03s and 4.00s won't really be interested in using the Civi version of the guns instead)
And Yet Again, I have to point out that Codenames are Not the Solution, as many like to fly Civi Heavy Fighters, but Can't cause of No decent guns!
' Wrote:This doesn't mean they must Suck! It just means they shouldn't be better than Faction Guns so players from Factions which have similar guns won't prefer the Civi ones.
(Sure, if we have Civi Refire 2.00s, 3.03s, 4.00s and 5.88s Players from Factions like GMG who don't like Photon Guns can use Civi refire 3.03s or such, but a Faction like Outcasts who have Two of the best Refire 3.03s and 4.00s won't really be interested in using the Civi version of the guns instead)
The point I was trying to make is, that they shouldn't be better than even those faction guns with completely different refires. Stuff like most of GMG switching to the new Civilian guns is what we wish to avoid.
The word "suck" may have been an overstatement, but one that will be used by many people anyway.
' Wrote:The point I was trying to make is, that they shouldn't be better than even those faction guns with completely different refires. Stuff like most of GMG switching to the new Civilian guns is what we wish to avoid.
So wait wait, they have to be worse then ALL faction guns because people might use them? Hmm interesting....
Then you should also remove Excaliburs and Twilights, they do 1390/695 and 880/440 damage with 2.0 and 3.03 refire and people might switch to them.
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