Assaulting Zoners and OORPness

[Treewyrm]

Hot discussion here. Interesting. Personally I think that Zoner aren't immune to pirate tax, in this regard I agree with Jinx. Plus I also don't agree that every faction here requires Zoner support. Some may, perhaps, but surely not lawful house factions and not major pirate houses, those are pretty much self-sustainable and either own complete infrastructure or have their own channels and means to deliver required goods. I don't think that Zoners hold monopoly on this kind of service.

p.s. ...and some just have no love for Zoners, you know, blue jellyfish.:nyam:Neutrality is an tricky thing, isn't it? I think there is no place for full neutrality in Freelancer within the borders of roleplay, one way or another it will shift into one party or another.

[McNeo]

Actually, the Zoners fear both the Outcasts and the Corsairs. Letting the Corsairs essentially police Omega 49 (NPCs) puts them in an even more favourable position.

From the rumours, some Corsairs are debating whether to attack Freeport 9 in the future and salvage the biodomes, and get rid of the bounty hunters.

Also from the rumours, the Zoners on Freeport 10 think that as soon as Freeport 10 loses its uses, they will be destroyed.

Also, artifacts in the cloud with the Omicron Gamma jump hole in it. Zoners say they dont touch them as they are Corsair property.

Those three show certain willingness from both sides of the war to attack the Zoners, and that the Zoners fear the Corsairs. I am sure that there are others that feature Zoners fearing Outcasts.

Its not as one sided as you claim, Drake. I do agree with your points, but as said earlier, lots of traders are flying with a Zoner tag and ID to gain immunity. At first, I let it go, but money is tight for people who pirate as it is. I can't afford to let 40% of the traders I see go past me. I admit, I have a debate of what to do everytime I see a Zoner trader. But Zoners certainly aren't immune.

From a purely RP point of view, you are correct Drake. But then, if we were pure RP, the location of the Omicron Gamma jump hole would be unknown to everyone but a Corsair or the odd Zoner (locate rumour, from the bartender on Freeport 9: He accidently tells Trent where the hole is and says 'Im a dead man'.

[Jwnantze]

1. As you, Jinx, have said many times, Zoners are not a tight knit society, the actions of one do not represent all. Therefore, If I pirate one, I wouldnt nesseccerally be hostile to all. Get my drift? You cant have it both ways. FOr example, say we made TAZ mad at the RoS for some reason. They could deney docking rights to Shasta and possibly Gran Canaria, but we would still be welcome in Theta, where our Zoner-ish friends, the AW, reside.

2. For the RoS, and unless otherwise specified, all my pirate chars, We do not attack or Tax OFFICIAL Zoner factions. Individual Zoners are just that: Individual. We might give you a discount for being nuetral, depending on your past actions, but since you are a loose society you shouldn't expect anything else. This is so that people dont hide behind Zoner Nuetrality. As of right now, the only factions we recognize and do not tax are AW and TAZ. JG are not full zoners, and ZR are not official. Therefore these are subject to taxation.

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There is nothing worth living for, unless it is worth dying for. -Elizabeth Elliott

[Jinx]

duke - that is correct - diplomacy must be cleared up with basicly each freeport. but if the novaPG would declare a war upon all zoners, that would certainly close all freeports for them, without any exception. a better way would be of course if we d cut them from supplies - but that could only be reflected each time igiss updates the mod by ... for example making each ship the blood dragons can purchase twice as expensive as any other .....

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Jwnantze]

Let me clarify that the Nova PG ID is a terrorist ID not a pirate ID. Im not sure if it allows pirateing or not.


EDIT: They are Blood Dragons......Sorta....They still have the BD tag and use BD ships.

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There is nothing worth living for, unless it is worth dying for. -Elizabeth Elliott

[Zelot]

I thought NovaPG were Blood Dragons.

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[blubba]

If I understand this, a single event (i.e taxing or plain piracy) against a zoner ship will mean the disruption of trade between HUGE factions?
The spending power of the Blood Dragon faction would be vast, the outcasts probably greater and not unlike that of the corsairs. I would imagine the loss of a single ship would count as little to the amounts of profit to be had for the zoners. If it's that uncomfortable to trade in these places, don't go there. If someone constantly pirates zoner vessels, they would be persecuted, not the faction or to a lesser extent even a clan. You can't arrest a country for an individuals crime. That person will be unable to dock at zoner bases, will find most borderworld systems hostile and it will be somewhat uncomfortable for them retreating through them in a damaged ship. Try getting a battered Sabre back from gamma to alpha with half the TBH after you and nowhere to dock and re-equip.
I don't think any ID tag should make you invulnerable to a bit of "taxation". If it happens all the time, change your trade route for a bit. The pirates will have to move to greener fields just like the traders . The idea is to stay one step ahead of em.

A foot note:I know about the passengers to Crete thing. If thats what the corsair clans are saying, don't take em there or take something else. It's not like we traders don't know whats going to happen if we do. We have been warned.

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[Drake]

If Zoners were to become openly taxable by any pirate if that pirate doesn't see the Zoner hauling stuff directly beneficial to that pirate's cause, then the entire RP behind the Zoners and their dealings with other factions falls apart. They become just another NPC trader faction, no different from BOWEX as far as anyone is concerned.

I'm aware that the Zoners are on very precarious footing with both the Outcasts and Corsairs (Nomads don't count, Tree, since they don't have any trade dealings with anyone), but the neutrality is still holding together. If the Outcasts no longer need the Zoners, then Freeport-10 will be no more and the Zoners will have the same trouble in the Taus and Outcast space as any other trader... But the Outcast do find the Zoners useful, too useful to just throw away willy-nilly. The Corsairs have debated seizing the Zoner biodomes, but haven't yet. Why? Well, Zoners supply a lot of useful cargo to the Corsairs, which they might be able to get elsewhere, but it would certainly be more difficult. They're also the main hauler of Corsair artifacts. The Zoners are also tightly allied to the Order, who would probably side with them over the Corsairs any day.

I already mentioned, Treewyrm, that the House factions don't rely on Zoner support. I think the Houses would be more likely to outlaw the Zoners and politely (or not) escort them out of their territory when found. To them the Zoners are just a bunch of questionably-aligned traders who deal with pirates. Of course, that can't really happen in the game, because the PC lawfuls DO rely on the Zoners for much of their equipment.

@Duke, If the AW were to choose to side with a pirate faction who assaults/taxes Zoners, even if those Zoners aren't in Theta, then their claim to be the 'Zoner Guard' faction becomes truly laughable.

[gezza999]

The Zoner neutrality is based on the fact that they do NOTHING, not that they trade with everybody, they simply keep bases open, each single base has its own ways, and haul supplies from Freeport to Freeport. Freeport 11 is more lenient to Corsairs than Freeport 10. Mainly because of who is near those bases... Freeport 11 has Corsairs, Freeport 10 has Outcasts.

Zoners don't get involved with house politics, they have their bases only in the independent worlds for a reason, far off from the houses, they don't get in trouble with them. Zoners wouldn't trade with ANY faction because it'd cause trouble for them in the end, they'd have to ship equal amounts of goods to each faction, to avoid pissing off another faction, keeping such strict quotas would be impossible, and damn expensive, eventually, you'd slip up, such a situation that Drake describes would occur. Well, Zoners want neutrality.. They aren't going to step up to a fight so easily, and there aren't THAT many mercenaries...


You know that the Zoners are on a knife edge with both the Outcasts and the Corsairs... The job of maintaining perfect neutrality is hard... They won't make it harder with this, since not all pirate factions are "fair" if you like.

As Duke nuke'm says, they aren't tight knit. An over all political policy of such sorts wouldn't work, they also wouldn't be able to co-ordinate such a response...

Real world solution?

Don't allow the Zoner ID to have transports, or freighters.

EDIT: To clear up one small point... The Outcasts don't NEED Freeport 10, it just helps to distribute Cardi...

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[chopper]

@Duke Nuke'm - Exactly what Drake said. If AW (Zoners) are friends of Outcasts, and enemies of Corsairs (they were once, not sure about now?) they are not really Zoners.
And if RoS attacks TAZ, and AW don't react on that, but stays friendly, they are again not Zoners.
Because, true Zoners stick together.

About the matter, i think that both sides are right.
For example, let's take that event where Skyelius attacks a Zoner.
It is most certainly not a disguised Trader. It's a true Zoner.
They should be left alone, especially by major Pirate factions.
If they however choose to attack/pirate them, then they should be red to Zoners.
But, Zoners w/o tag, not registered as Zoners here on board, should be pirated, by all means. Without sanctions (red to Zoners).
I'm not sure what happened with the NovaPG/TAZ/ZR thing, so i'l skip that.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del