My 2 cents, "ganking" is an awful term and with absolutely no meaning.
Of course, I appreciate if the enemy keeps things fair, however, he is not obliged to do so.
You're not okay with it, stop invading...: D
Besides, simply having the same number of ships, doesn't automatically mean the fight will be fair. Some people are more skilled at PvP than others, no doubt about that. For example, if I fought you 1 on 1 in a gunboat, I would be the one "ganked", since I utterly fail...see my point?
Again, you can't impose your way of thinking on others, you simply cannot. What you can do, is:
a. Be more stubborn than they are, and bring increasingly more forces, as to "counter-gank".
b. Don't fight at all.
c. Try to set an example, and try to keep things fair yourself. My bet is that the enemy will start doing the same pretty soon.
Personally, I always go for either b or, more often, c 8-||
Sounds like someone needs to bring some Rheinie gunboats to bear. As for fighterswarms beating everything: Yea, that is annoying. Wish we could institute a damage modifier for damage done by craft type X to craft type Y...
Anyone else thinking snubs could do with bat/bot supplies slashed in half?
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' Wrote:While I applaud your efforts directed towards fair gaming and keeping the war alive, I must say that I am mostly disappointed by how you handle the organization of the said events, and that you only make the Rheinland side responsible for their supposed failure.
We cannot measure fairness ship by ship and that is something you need to understand. Snubcraft are just as much a part of warfare as capital ships are and as long as you appear with a (seemingly) overwhelming invasion force, right in the middle of a crucial traffic junction (being usually Hamburg), you should expect that the odds will be against you, same way how the odds are against Rheinland if they appear in Texas.
If you are worried about either of the parties gaining advantage in an organized event, I recommend taking two measures:
1) Organize it somewhere above / below the plane, in a less populated system. Munster was a good choice, but New Hampshire and Quebec could also work.
2) Post it on the forums. Make a list of the attendants so that all sides are aware of who can be there and who cannot.
As for charging the [RM] with ganking...
Going to the [RM] pilots before the fight even began and telling them not to gank is rather demoralizing, since they assume that you are saying this because you believe that the [RM] has a practice of using overwhelming odds. While I admit that we cannot always accurately measure how many ships are participating in each sides (given the fact that these battles are usually spread across the map), I have to say that we indeed do watch out to give fair fights and getting this "don't gank don't gank don't gank" thing from you over and over again (mostly when it's unjustified) is understandably taken as an attack on our faction and I wouldn't be surprised if some of us would get tired of this attitude.
In addition, just as much as we can't, you cannot accurately measure the odds either. In the specific fight you marked with red, expressing your disappointment regarding the RM's conduct, your perspective is rather narrow and biased. Indeed, you had three bombers on you (the fourth one didn't even engage), but the rest of the Rheinland fleet was severely outnumbered by the Liberty forces, which you did not see.
Us focusing on you when the fight is taking place elsewhere is ganking? No, I do not believe so. Your own narrow perspective made you believe that you suffered some sort of disadvantage, in fact all that happened was that you refused to give the case a throughout observation.
Of course the first fight you mentioned was successful, after all it was the only one Liberty won, also by severely outnumbering Rheinland forces. You did not see the Rheinländers complain, since both sides considered it fun.
But as soon as the situation turns around and you are the ones outnumbered, you are immediately complaining. Do you see a similar attitude on our side? No.
Why cannot you take overwhelming odds or a "gank" as you prefer to call it when referring to Rheinland being in advantage, with such an attitude? Why can't you think of it as a challenge, same way we do? Why do you have to resort to re-engaging, OOC whining and ordering people to exploit game mechanics when you see that your forces are getting defeated?
In light of all that, if you want collaboration, you should also accept that you or your buddies are not the center of the universe and respect your opponents, even if they are in power.
EDIT: I see I was ninja'd by most of what I wanted to say, well whatever.
I agree with most of what you said, but not everythink.
First of all, in first event what navy won thanks to advantage, I said we had advantage what was unfair, but [RM] come and hit us back in the end and RNC were PM to make more of those fights.
As for next 3 events navy lost, I did not complain, so not say that I get annoyed everytime I lose, and info I put there were not complaining that rheinland forces had advantage, I just put info about forces on both sides, events were fine.
However in last 2 events, we had just 4 Dreads and 2 gunboats, meaby it was many BS, but it not mean that we could handle 9 RNC and 3 subcrafts at once.
And in Hamburg, I understand that thinks were hard to control, but since rheinland won, there was no point of following us and jumping on retreating caps, on 2 last events Navy did not had overhealming forces, thats what I m 100% sure.
I have to admit I find it difficult to understand what you're trying to say, but I'll try to respond.
' Wrote:First of all, in first event what navy won thanks to advantage, I said we had advantage what was unfair, but [RM] come and hit us back in the end and RNC were PM to make more of those fights.
There were [RM] members in the first fight too, as I am sure you recall, the Schmiedehammer was leading the Rheinland force. The [RM] fighters that arrived to assist found themselves facing overwhelming odds too, which withdrew as soon as the Rheinland capital ships were destroyed.
I'm unsure what your point in this case is; but I can assure you that we never complained at the Libertonians for overwhelming us, either in that case or during an average Texas raid. Thus, I don't see how your "counter-argument" is of any relevance, when my point stands:
If you are fighting a war, be prepared properly as getting "ganked" is not only the fault of the opposing force.
' Wrote:As for next 3 events navy lost, I did not complain, so not say that I get annoyed everytime I lose, and info I put there were not complaining that rheinland forces had advantage, I just put info about forces on both sides, events were fine.
I personally recall the opposite, including a lot of other scenarios where you complained about the Rheinland side "ganking." It may not have been these three events you're referring to, but I have witnessed you complaining on numerous occasions over the dozens of fights I had with you and well proven by the existence of this thread, it did not cease.
' Wrote:However in last 2 events, we had just 4 Dreads and 2 gunboats, meaby it was many BS, but it not mean that we could handle 9 RNC and 3 subcrafts at once.
And in Hamburg, I understand that thinks were hard to control, but since rheinland won, there was no point of following us and jumping on retreating caps, on 2 last events Navy did not had overhealming forces, thats what I m 100% sure.
Yet another oversight in the scenario (at least in the second one, the only one of which I am aware): The battleships were told specifically to stand down, but the Liberty bombers started shooting at them regardless, and they were forced to put up a defense. Even so, only the Viraat shot back, which is one of the three battleships the RM had present. At that point did the three bombers engage you, chasing you away from the battlefield. The time window was used by your forces to summon a Dreadnaught under an LABC escort, at that point the Rheinland battleships requested assistance.
By the time the [RM] forces (that being two ships) arrived, they were already pulling out and you were destroyed by the bombers. One of the [RM] bombers chased the LABC and the Dreadnaught into the field but the battleships were told to stand down and they did until...
The [RM] bomber chasing the LABC and the Dreadnaught pursued them until the jump hole, where the two caps, seeing that the bomber was alone, opened fire. That rather blatant move, needless to say, proved a reason for further pursuit and summoning the rest of the RM ships in to assist.
Anyway, I refuse to discuss the odds any further and keep myself to the points I raised in my other post.
Assault1 talking about ganking? Someone ganking THEM?!
Let me tell you something.
This did not happen in Bremen, or New Hampshire or Bering or Texas or Hamburg or what ever.
It happened in New York.
What happened is, I try to solo the famous assault1 who drives a OP Liberty Gunboat. What do I get? Three more assault tagged vessel rapid-firing me with those damn turrets.
I normally poof.
But you know what didn't happen? I didn't Q_Q.
No, I took it like a man, and went to another char, and pirated poor miners.
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Assault1 talking about ganking? Someone ganking THEM?!
Let me tell you something.
This did not happen in Bremen, or New Hampshire or Bering or Texas or Hamburg or what ever.
It happened in New York.
What happened is, I try to solo the famous assault1 who drives a OP Liberty Gunboat. What do I get? Three more assault tagged vessel rapid-firing me with those damn turrets.
I normally poof.
But you know what didn't happen? I didn't Q_Q.
No, I took it like a man, and went to another char, and
pirated poor miners.
The Major & Valinor already answered on behalf of [RM]. I just want to point out that you are using the word "event" incorrectly. When you /fi LNS and invade Hamburg or Bremen, this isn't an event. By definition this word implies something arranged. Also, I want to remind you, that we cannot control our indies. So after a balanced battle starts, some indies may disrupt this balance.
I will only answer in the paragraph I was involved in.
' Wrote:And the reason why I write this Treat, why I complain here is because of what happened on yesterday event in Bremen.
I organized on my side 4 Dreads: LNS-Zagam, LNS-Columbia, LNS-EagleEye, and another Dread.
2 gunboats ( My and Assault18 I think ).
1 bomber LNS-Havon what come in late part of battle since he was afk.
I was telling to RNC like 6 times, no fighter/bomber swarm, no more than 1 bomber or fighter on they side, no outnumbering forces.
When we got there, Rhienland side had: 2 Battleships, 2 Cruizers, 5 gunboats, 2 indie fighters, 1 BMD bomber, 1 [RM] fighter and 1 radom bomber pilot who just join rheinalnd side, no idea why.
I asked Rheinalnd side to ask Fighters and bombers to leave this battle so it can be fair, I did it like 3 times, instead, 2 Cruizers shot Light mortal without Engadement notice, Bombers and fighters CD us and bomb, and we got ganged by everyone, even [RM] pilot.
Event - 100% fail.
I was in a bomber, not a fighter. That single thing shows that you don't even have a good view of what happened yesterday. So let me update you.
LN had: 4 Dreads, 2 Gunboats and 1 Upholder
RM had: 2 BS, 2 Cruisers, 4 Gunboats (some of them with CAU I, just to know what you were fighting against..)
and I was on a bomber along with another bomber indie and also a Wraith took part as well.
You of course, OOCed and asked to exclude all snubs from fight because it was a planned event. I asked each and every one of my group and they told me that there wasn't any planned event. Furthermore, you were in 2-3K distance from the Munster, the most well protected and secret research facility in Rheinland. So I ignored your demands and the 2 bombers + 1 wraith attacked you as well.
Result? All your ships were destroyed and from our side all our caps were destroyed except a gunboat. Also I was the only snub which stood alive. Just to point out that some indies came almost before the fight finished and the result of the fight was already decided.
From the casualties that the RM side suffered, you can't tell that it was a gang. We had a slight numerical advantage and in return most of the indies were rookies. All in all, if the RM snubs didn't engage, we would have lost, and now we just barely won.
After the fight we were spammed by you and some others Assault members who insulted and whined about the fight. I don't have any respect for you or your squad anymore. All these weeks/months your behavior was at least annoying.
' Wrote:Sounds like someone needs to bring some Rheinie gunboats to bear. As for fighterswarms beating everything: Yea, that is annoying. Wish we could institute a damage modifier for damage done by craft type X to craft type Y...
Anyone else thinking snubs could do with bat/bot supplies slashed in half?
As always, you are right about this balance issue, but that's not the purpose of this thread.
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