Ossie and LibDread

[Knjaz]

Battleship missiles in 4.85 were used for one purpose: cheapkilling fighters. Now that battleship missile slots have been restricted, heavy turrets are more important for anti capital warfare, and bs missile exploding doesn't blow up other bs missiles in the vicinity AND most importantly, now BS missiles actually damage capital ship, the BS missile is useful for one purpose only: long range bombardment against other BS/cruisers.

The debatable thing on it is refire IMO. It could be decreased so that a single missile can be fired more often. Other than that, I think it's more or less ok, which fights on server can hopefully confirm.

Heh, all Ranseurs that tried to pull that off somehow always ended up their killing their sabres. I don't think we've played different games, but I clearly remember No.1 rule of BS missile user - never use em in snubfights. It's like... everyone in Taus know that? ^^ Although, missiles generally weren't effective in T23.

As for Hamburg frontline, well, from my memory they were alway used as an anti-cruiser/sieging weapon. Of medium effeciency.

As for increasing missile refire rate, so you won't waste 1 heavy slot for something, that has 0.11 DtE, Refire Rate of 0.10 and homing capabilities dependable on amount of people on server, I guess it'd be the right idea.

About LiDread - well, I'm kinda afraid of what will happen when it'll go against a Valor (and I guess with Bretonia losing the war, it will?). Hell, even Br.BSes manage to kite em pretty damn well, from what I've seen so far. Not to mention that Valor in Taus asteoird fields (and, unlike in Rheinland/Texas, there're quite many of them But I'll agree that too little time passed.

Also, I hope that we'll never ever have to watch a LibDread vs Valor fight in T31 asteroid field.

The energy usage is quite brutal still as well. Increasing the refire won't do much if the thing drains your core after a few shots anyways, just help drain it faster

Not really, higher refire rate will be ok. Or medium slot mounting. Well, they might use a DtE increase from 0.11 to 0.13, but that's it, IMO. Missiles were never supposed to be an anti-battleship weaponry.

[Camtheman]

This can be a big or small change depending on the type of battleship really... letting an osiris mount razor and full solaris with newly increased solaris range now might once again return it to a place where it can very easily destroy any small ships at short and medium range - while at the same time also being able to kite other capitals to some extent if it can still mount a mortar on top of that.

Then nobody will choose razors because they've got 16 (on some battleships =P) turrets alloted to anti GB/fighter while only a couple for fighting cruisers > and up.

As for razors, they remain as a mostly anti gunboat weapon that also has some use in surprise killing fighters/bombers. Contrary to opinion, one can still semi reliably bias a battleship for anti fighter/gb duty by filling it with solaris/flaks/maybe gatling solaris or some secondaries on light turret slots, some pulses on the med slots for deshielding gb/unlucky bombers, and on heavy slots of course razors for surprise kills. Switching razors to light slots will allow all battleships to supplement themselves with razors as part of a standard loadout.

It does seem more adept at killing gunboats who stray too close moreso than fighters/bombers.

I see what you mean about ossies now using that free slot for something anti capital... but isnt that the point of the turret split in the first place? to open them up to more duties?

[CzeReptile]

Light battleships have win now even more. The 1.00 refire for cerbs is a joke. Lib dread now owns all. and KU BS is best heavy there is. 9m core but can strafe kite successfully and has great armor. By far the best heavy there is.

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[Soban]

Ku bs the best ? Depends. How many turret he has now, 4 cl10 and 9 I guess but how many cl8 ?

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[Lunaphase]

Another thing to keep in mind too with the smaller bs. Now that they can mount just as many primarys as heavys and still maintain their agility, you end up with heavy bs unable to touch them at range unless they know how to spam the crap out of missles properly.

A osirus is 7x less massive than a zoner battleship. They both use the same sheild # with the osirus having 1 more primary at the cost of only 1 heavy.

Liberty dread, 6x less massive, only loses 1 heavy slot and still has its high agility. All the turret split really did is make the heavyer bs now moving fortresses that spam heavy ordinance and all the light ones just MORE effective at their roles.

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[Hades]

Well, the missile is meant to be more as a support weapon than an assault one. You sit back and lob missiles at a target that is far away and hard to hit with guns, not necessarily close by. I can see the issue however. Now that the "double missile anti fighter cheese" is gone, I agree that it warrants a second look.

Sorry but missiles can't even be shot down anyway since they have something like 100k projectile HP so it's not like them being hard to hit as it is matters any,

That should probably be changed too since it makes no sense to be like this, both realistically and gameplay wise, escorting fighters should be able to run a screen and shoot down some incoming torpedoes ala Starlancer or FreeSpace.

A osirus is 7x less massive than a zoner battleship. They both use the same sheild # with the osirus having 1 more primary at the cost of only 1 heavy.

Liberty dread, 6x less massive, only loses 1 heavy slot and still has its high agility. All the turret split really did is make the heavyer bs now moving fortresses that spam heavy ordinance and all the light ones just MORE effective at their roles.

Your numbers are, frankly, wrong. It's more like the dread is, at most, 3x smaller including surface area and volume.

The Osiris maybe 3.4x or something like that.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HL...comparisons.png <-- used from another thread, ignore the ship next to the RM BS.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/...sizing.png <--- Ossie compared to the LD.

[Knjaz]

Sorry but missiles can't even be shot down anyway since they have something like 100k projectile HP so it's not like them being hard to hit as it is matters any,

That should probably be changed too since it makes no sense to be like this, both realistically and gameplay wise, escorting fighters should be able to run a screen and shoot down some incoming torpedoes ala Starlancer or FreeSpace.

afaik, it takes 2 flak hits to shot em down. will have to recheck, though.

AND, if you increase their hitbox, so fighters can hit em >>> then you make it possible to hit em with solaris (already possible, but not always easy)>>>> no need for flaks on BS, flaks are barely useful again.

[Hades]

afaik, it takes 2 flak hits to shot em down. will have to recheck, though.

AND, if you increase their hitbox, so fighters can hit em >>> then you make it possible to hit em with solaris (already possible, but not always easy)>>>> no need for flaks on BS, flaks are barely useful again.

Or you could do all of this (and fighters could be able to hit them anyway, and much easier than a battleship) and actually make flaks useful and not be somewhat slot wasting.

Then again we've got Mjolnir in charge of balance so we probably shouldn't expect any decent ideas to actually go through.

[Knjaz]

Or you could do all of this (and fighters could be able to hit them anyway, and much easier than a battleship) and actually make flaks useful and not be somewhat slot wasting.

Then again we've got Mjolnir in charge of balance so we probably shouldn't expect any decent ideas to actually go through.

No opinion on Mjolnir due to lack of info, but having 1-2 flaks on 360 upper/lower slots isn't such a big sacrifice, imo. At least I had multiple instances in battles in 85 where i'd be glad to have 1-2 flaks on me (most funny one was 15-18 OCie fighters against our 2 makos)

[Jinx]

mjolnir did half of what i suggested with heavy slots. - sadly just half of it....

the idea had been:

to have the REFIRE regulate the dps ... rather than the ENERGY CONSUMPTION.

right now - it is both - refire AND energy consumption. - which is a bit too much. - with the limitation of slots, the general idea ( the idea i applied to it ) had been to revise the way capships fight. - they wouldn t manage the energy anymore too much - but instead manage the timing of when to fire.

energy would still be used for "spray" weapons ( light and medium slots )

heavy slots were not meant to use much energy at all. - hence a serious refire rate.

points i agree with:

- missiles are kind of a waste compared to cerbs in terms of "to hit" and "dps". but at least we still have them - one suggestion had been to remove them completely - which i d find wrong.

- cerberus are the easiest to use, cause they are primary like - and when you equip cerbs - you keep playing like a fighter

- mortars ( especially HMs ) are going the right direction. - but not consequently enough. they should benefit more from "no energy" but "more refire" ... so that you can time them accordingly.

- pulses are useless - cause capship shields are pointless ( in a cap to cap fight ) - they are simply too weak to give pulses a purpose over sustained medium guns like primaries.




again - my idea had been:

light slot:
- use low energy - more or less make it possible for a capship to spam them near indefinitely. ( solaris, gattling solaris, flak )

medium slots:
- use normal energy, so that energy management comes into play. ( razors, primaries, secondaries, Cerberus, Mortars, Light Missiles )

heavy slots:
- use little to no energy but have extreme refire so that they fire like 2-3 times on average in a cap battle. ( HM, Heavy Missiles, heavy razor )

explanation of what i had in mind with the weapons:
- solaris and gattling solaris are as they ought to be
- flak is good
- razors in the medium slots can be as they are
- primaries might do more damage but only a little more
- secondaries twice the damage so they become an alternative
- cerberus good as they are .... you d trade a heavy energy use for a lot of damage - on a medium slot
- mortars - might be good on medium slots. you give up sustained fire - but the refire should be lower - energy consumption as it is
- light missiles - like cruiser missiles with a halfed range though
- HM - refire of like 2 minutes - no energy consumption; a weapon to charge in - and use like 2-3 times in a fight
- heavy missile - like now, no energy - trading massive damage for ease of hitting at range, refire of 2 minutes
- heavy razor - refire of 2 minutes, 2million energy usage, 2.5k speed, range of 2.5k - a sniper weapon ... the only heavy weapon to use energy - so that a ship relying on it must reserve some


the above was a "concept" for the weapons. some of it had been realized, some not. - that had meant that heavy battleships had the edge over light ones in a direct encounter - but light ones had the edge in a "defense yourself" situation, due the easier hitting of targets.

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