Enforcing House Law Incorrectly

[Von Richtofen]

The first thing that comes to mind is:
stay out of their face with a rheinland ship and IFF. If you know that they will just attack you because you're a rheinlander, or because you are a nomad, or because you are a hogosha, or because you're a rogue, or a pirate, stay away from them. I mean... they're not TOTALLY illogical in what they're doing. It just happens to be so that the primaries decided that other rheinland ships should be shot at but not ALG, for some reason.

2 responses to this. Firstly, easier said than done. And i am not just referring to Liberty, this confusion happens elsewhere.
Secondly, I am not a pirate, or a rogue, or an outcast, or nomad. I am a lawful trader. Why should i have to change or limit my gameplay to accommodate other players lack of knowledge and their ignorance? As an ALG vessel, of the correct type, and carrying the allowed cargo, I should have no cause for concern. What you are suggesting is that I should adjust my actions when i am the one doing things right?

I agree with the rest of your post. I don't want to be seen to be Liberty bashing but let's be honest, that is the major problem area for me. .
One solution that presents itself. Maybe the official factions could lower their recruitment requirements and actually actively recruit ingame? Sure this wont eradicate the problem, but there are some players who make an effort to Rp their military or police characters even though they don't know the limits of their powers or the correct law. Not all of them want to come on the forums and post a character bio and inRp application etc, yet they Rp quite adequately in game. Recruiting some of these players directly and then pointing them to the things they need to learn is far better than expecting them to learn everything before you even consider recruiting them. You can then teach them how to enforce the correct laws etc and even if they turn out to be kicked or leave the faction, they will have learned some important points.
Again, this is down to the official factions, only they can effect this change.

[Von Richtofen]

Perhaps I misunderstood then, but in part my comment remains the same: the [LN] could go so far as to privately link the laws to each and every LNS captain, but it would still be the responsibility of each indie player to learn the laws. They're happy to offer explanations to those with questions*, but if those questions don't even get asked... we're back to square one.

Agreed aye.

[monmarfori]

We have a serious problem - indies go to embargo zones not knowing, and then get fined because they dont know law and going to embargo zones. We must tackle that problem.

[Barrier]

I can vouch that whatever complaints come forward to the Rheinland Military will be read, and I would be happy to reply to them if they're not specifically coded for "the high command" (or even mid-command). Even in those cases, I'll probably get authorization to hammer any specific embargo law into any ignorant minds, whenever I'm online. I'm sure that others will do something similar, and if the person persists, we can mark him as a "kill on sight" for disrupting trade (just like a pie-rat).
However, I can see how in Liberty, this becomes a huge mess due to a sheer mass of new players... There are solutions to this that I can think of, but most of them don't deal directly with the law-breakers.

[SMGSterlin]

We could make a rule where it's illegal for capitals to shoot transports....

Oh wait.

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[Anaximander]

As far as I can tell this topic has nothing to do with capital ships. Dunno what caps shooting transports has got to do with anything.

It is about players using a - perhaps intentionally - wrong interpretation of house laws to be douches.

I think everyone tried this, and I think the best thing to do is to report it to the official faction (and be considerate of the fact that they might not have the time or the ability to deal with it), and just avoid the player from then on. It is often fairly easy to identify those who are doing stuff like this out of bad intentions, and those who just don't know any better. The latter will often be willing to listen to your character's RP arguments and so; while the former throws a /l1 at you and starts firing.

You'll meet idiotic pirates that just want to shoot you, just as well as you can meet idiotic lawfuls who just want to shoot you, don't let it get you down.

[Zen_Mechanics]

I am a zoner, Penys is a Zoner system under liberty protection, yet I cannot move crews to Bethlehem with my Zoner-Flagship, cuz they dont allow such vessels to get there.
So not only they prevent a Zoner, with or without a big vessel, they also talk dirty and insult players, I might just open a zoner based group whos goal is to free penys and then we'll show those nublet navies how its done.

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Were fools to make war on our brothers in arms.

[Sanguines]

THe only problem I have is that AI appear to be fined just as if they where living machines

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Wiki: http://discoverygc.com/wiki/User:SonyaSilverfall (My chars, etc)

[Von Richtofen]

THe only problem I have is that AI appear to be fined just as if they where living machines

Ha yeah, I gave up on my AI character. People seemed to expect too much of a 'human' response and seemed unable to accept the Rp of an AI unmanned drone.

We could make a rule where it's illegal for capitals to shoot transports....

Oh wait.

I think Sterlin's point is that, more often than not, it is the newbie cap ship pilots that seem to cause the problem. It's still a player problem, but there's so many of them flying caps, that's all.

I can vouch that whatever complaints come forward to the Rheinland Military will be read, and I would be happy to reply to them if they're not specifically coded for "the high command" (or even mid-command). Even in those cases, I'll probably get authorization to hammer any specific embargo law into any ignorant minds, whenever I'm online. I'm sure that others will do something similar, and if the person persists, we can mark him as a "kill on sight" for disrupting trade (just like a pie-rat).
However, I can see how in Liberty, this becomes a huge mess due to a sheer mass of new players... There are solutions to this that I can think of, but most of them don't deal directly with the law-breakers.

Rheinland isn't so much of a problem it seems. There's often RM at hand to correct the indies if they make a bad call. Also, most of the indie guys work well with the official factions. My own pilots are expected to be able to enforce the embargo legally and we all try to educate those that make mistakes. Even those breaking the Embargo. I don't agree with shooting down first time offenders or newbies who either have no idea about the embargo or don't understand it. I will explain where I can and point them to the correct section of the forums. I dont need to destroy them.
This attitude of course, doesnt work in Liberty. The official presence is far outweighed by the Indy one where Navy is concerned, LN really do have their work cut out. Unfortunately, the general plan seems to be 'shoot now, check later' when it comes to rule interpretation by indies. Everyone loves a blue kill message huh?

[Anaximander]

Dunno, I played here on-and-off since '09 or '10, the problem have always been there. People should stop confusing capital ships with general poor behaviour, they don't necessarily have to have anything to do with one another.