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Generation · 06-26-2008, 10:07 AM,

I want it....Junkers here I come.

tyro · 06-26-2008, 10:16 AM,

anyway, even Jinx would change decision, there would be very big transport.
personally, I hate huge ships. they are not fun for me, but it is only my feeling.
I prefer something about firefly size and cost.

Jinx · (This post was last modified: 06-26-2008, 10:27 AM by Jinx.)

in defense for the concept:laugh:- yes, trading bats and bots is a problem - and i d much rather have a repair beam.... BUT igiss said some time ago - that we would not get a repair beam. - soo... what you get is a repair ship of destroyer size ( mind - with destroyer shields ) that can assist capital ships in battle.

it does make a difference if you have 600 bats/bots initially - or 6000 more bats / bots on your buddy. - if its a bomber magnet, the bomber itself runs against a fortress that is harder to take down than a battleship, cause this ship would be able to regenerate itself 10 times more than a normal destroyer.

3 cruiser turrets - alright, thats no what you d call deadly. but a ship with much more could easily destroy other capital ships then - and ( at that time ) i didn t see the junkers as a fighting faction much.

but fear not! - igiss has considered the concept and i am sure he ll find a good balance. - i tend to balance concepts by the old principle.... if they have an extreme strength, they must have even greater weaknesses. - so if that ship had 6000 bats / bots, it would suffer extremely in the offensive department. - i suggested it to have 1000 cargo btw. not a lot, but still OK - maybe igiss can blow this one up to 2500 cargo or so - it would be reasonbale for the size.... but i m unsure how fond he is of all those hybrid ships.

one or two hybrid ships are fine. but once you get a load of them, balancing becomes either an act of randomness or impossible. ( or a matter of extended betatesting )

so, i agree, the ship is rather weak - so is the concept of the zoner gunboat and the order carrier. - i dislike making "uber" ships. - i find it more interesting to make ships with unique features. ( like roleplaying... i dislike playing a hero without flaws - and i much rather play the wooden legged, half blind, insane guy )

[Image: just_a_signature_by_sjrarj-d63yjsx.png]

Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

pipsqueak · 06-26-2008, 10:48 AM,

Quote:yes, trading bats and bots is a problem - and i d much rather have a repair beam.... BUT igiss said some time ago - that we would not get a repair beam.

Really? I thought we didnt have it was because -ve damage was obliterating the target in one shot.
can you put igliss's quote here m8? cause I can not fing it.

Jinx · 06-26-2008, 11:19 AM,

uh - i could come up with a good excuse why i don t put up the quote - but the real reason is that i m too lazy to browse the million threads.

anyway - we had a thread that showed pictures and videos of another mod that managed to make a repair beam. - everyone was hyped about it - and then it was said that it wouldnt happen here. it was not said why that would be - maybe cause igiss doesn t know how it was done and the ppl in charge of the other mod were either non cooperative or simply not there anymore or other reasons. maybe the whole affair of repair guns made the server unstable - who knows.

anyway - repair beams are possible ( looked like a tractor beam in blue ) that would reduce your bots/bats at a set amount of x/second - while at the same time adding the amount of the bot/bats to the target. the range appeared to be short - but the video only showed a ship reparing another one in a non combat situation and very close by.

the discussion was some time ago - allmost a year or so. and was shot down like cloaking devices and other useful but unbalancing stuff.

come to that - think of what it can do..... if it added bats and bots - all you need to do is repair a "little bit" at a time so the shields replenish "just a little" - then the target can take a FULL broadside of whatever ( like a supernova ) and it ll only drain this tiny bit of shield - cause the rest of the damage is absorbed. - if you had two repair ships - they could target each other and do that forever.

such things can be unbalancing - depending how you can import them into the game. - trading bats / bots is NOT hard - as long as you do it for capital ships. capship combat usually goes quick, cause they cannot dodge like fighters - but its more predictable. - they don t take huge chunks of damage suddenly but are torn apart steadily. - so when a capital ship is at like 30% hull and the other is at 50% and its obvious that the cap is not gonne make it - there is still time to trade bats and bots - and turn the battle around. - i don t think a repair ship is much help for a fighter - cause a fighter takes more benefit from dodging than from bats / bots anyway.

Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

Culebra · 06-26-2008, 01:16 PM,

' Wrote:3 cruiser turrets - alright, thats no what you d call deadly. but a ship with much more could easily destroy other capital ships then - and ( at that time ) i didn t see the junkers as a fighting faction much.

but fear not! - igiss has considered the concept and i am sure he ll find a good balance. - i tend to balance concepts by the old principle.... if they have an extreme strength, they must have even greater weaknesses. - so if that ship had 6000 bats / bots, it would suffer extremely in the offensive department. - i suggested it to have 1000 cargo btw. not a lot, but still OK - maybe igiss can blow this one up to 2500 cargo or so - it would be reasonbale for the size.... but i m unsure how fond he is of all those hybrid ships.

1000 cargo ug thats dissapointing. 2500? Why not just use a firefly and its smaller. I don't think many Junkers would use this ship to give bats/bots to others. This will be a good looking ship that in the end I think will not be used much once the newness wears off.

Jinx · 06-26-2008, 01:35 PM,

well, if it has cruiser turrets, it can mount ammoless missiles. thats an advantage over any transport that cannot mount any tracking weapon at all. - i daresay that ppl that experienced a repair ship in battle on their side might think of the repair ship to be much more useful than - well, having none on your side or even on the other ppls side.

the current repair ship could fully replenish a zoner juggernaut 2 times more than the juggernaut can do itself. - that gives the battleship a hull strength that is superiour to any other ship that has no repair ship on its side - provided the repair ship is not targetted initially of course - but thats where the stronger defense kick in - if the salvage frigate was targetted first - it d still have cruiser shields and a medium hull - and as long as ppl fire on the frigate, they cannot fire on the other targets - and repairing the salvage frigate is even easier, cause its just eating up its own bats / bots - and if it had like 200.000 armour and be able to heal like 10 times ( and when it had something like 3.0 multiplier which is sort of normal for a capital ship ) it would still be a hull strength of ( 200k x3 = 600k x 10 repairs = 6 million hull ) - enough to last a long time in battle, time that the enemy forces do not fire on the other targets.

if however the salvage frigate is flying all alone. - it serves no purpose indeed. it was concepted as a PURE group / and mostly large scale battle support ship. if a lone junker was flying that thing - it would be purely for RP purpose - just like the current vanilla repair ship. anyway - if it was used as a transport - what occasional pirate would want to mess with it? - a nearly undestructible ship that can, if lucky, damage the attacker well with like 1 missile turret and maybe 1 cap inferno + 1 solaris turret.

ok, i admit, other than used in a full scale battle, it would be useless - but we gotto wait and see what igiss makes of it.

Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

Culebra · 06-26-2008, 01:44 PM,

' Wrote:if however the salvage frigate is flying all alone. - it serves no purpose indeed. it was concepted as a PURE group / and mostly large scale battle support ship. if a lone junker was flying that thing - it would be purely for RP purpose

ok, i admit, other than used in a full scale battle, it would be useless - but we gotto wait and see what igiss makes of it.

And thats the problem. Most Junkers (other than the JC) do not fly together and will not fly together. (Trust me I have tried to get them to cooperate.)

me_b_kevin · 06-26-2008, 02:02 PM,

i hate to sound like a broken record, but i'm still of the mindset that junkers aren't militaristic. they don't need fighters or bombers or cruisers or any sort of warship. freightors and transports are all they need. i feel the same for the zoners also but they already have become a military, which saddens me. i just don't want the junkers to develop into another zoner fiasco, where a neutral faction with next to no enemies gets a full line of warships in order to fight.....no one.

sure the Zoners are in proximity to nomads and i guess they can justify having warships for that. the junkers however are just glorified garbage men. only two factions hate them, hogosha and xenos but that just because of proximity. the junkers choose only to defend themselves when needed or just have someone else fight for them, for example if a xeno is close they'll notify the authorities.

junkers are a very unique faction, please lets keep them that way. if you want to PVP i suggest using another faction and leave us junkers to our scrap

Mon'Star the Red- Rated "R" : http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3224
Aboard the Necrosis- Rated "E": http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3313

Culebra · 06-26-2008, 02:09 PM,

' Wrote:i hate to sound like a broken record, but i'm still of the mindset that junkers aren't militaristic. they don't need fighters or bombers or cruisers or any sort of warship. freightors and transports are all they need.

junkers are a very unique faction, please lets keep them that way. if you want to PVP i suggest using another faction and leave us junkers to our scrap

And I have said before PVP is brought to me I don't got looking for it. No fighters! Never going to happen ever.

Xeno's in bombers worry me. If our enemies have bombers we must have bombers. Falling behind in the arms race normaly means you become extinct.

The ship Jinx proposed is not a warship. My concern is that it have a large cargo hold and be able to take one heck of a beating. I could care less if it can blow up a cruiser.

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