A look back at the Junker and Hogosha IDs.

[Jansen]

Try for once to keep a discussion civil and on topic, without the need for personal attacks.

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[Plan-B]

in my opinion the biggest problem is the "QUASI" state - we all know what happened when Itabashi was under Hogosha:

- traders undocking Ropongi or New Tokyo were "killed on sight" by the base.
asking some of the hogosha led to this -teacher like- : "then you must have done something bad in past to the hogosha" or this "may be you shot a missile at the base"
- crap -bullsh ... trader without missiles - no kills - etc.- The position was not balanced - we are here a few years - so no need of a teacher

i understand "quasilawful" as smugglers - so they should be treated - so all house lawfuls can decide to kill or not

removing the docking status at house space will lead to OORP actions e.g. for junker pob's when they try to supply their base.

its not the question of pirating - 2 years ago - mining in O7 1 st a hesian came asking for a "donation", then a junker started a countdown, after paying him a wild came along and killed me.
well but pirating in front of a main planet like new berlin or new tokyo or manhatten - honestly - noone should do this - and rules - yes - but if i see someone threatening / killing my neighbour or guest i will call the police. and the pirat must face the consequences.

plz do not return the situation like we had 2-3 years ago when i killed a pirate trans with my bretonia cruiser - got a ban - cause i wasnt allowed to by rules. (RP blocked by rules)

drawn to the question above this means e.g. a hogosha stops a trader to demand contrabound (or whatever) in tokyo system and a KSP / KNF is watching this but he tells the trader: "ahhh - yes i am house lawful but i cant kill him or do something against cause hes a quasi-lawful" (RP blocked by rules)

stay "realistic" whoever starts pirating or smuggling in house space - must expect trouble when caught by a lawful.

Summary:
if you allow piracy for both - you get new pirates
if you set their state to smugglers - you have all opitons

[Ryummel]

Adding cargo/money piracy to those two IDs plus keeping the ability for police factions to shoot both would also bring another advantage of popularity for the latter over the military factions as well.

Come on, why not?

[sindroms]

B, that's the whole point. That was an issue 2 years ago and the way things are deald with IRP and the way the community works has changed since then. Not to mention, so have the rules AS WELL as the IDs:

The following line has been added to all house military, police and special forces IDs: http://i.imgur.com/EZoewkS.png
What this means is that they can attack quasi-lawfuls ON SIGHT regardless of their actions at the time.
Don't like the Junker chilling in front of NL? Pop him.

EDIT: Mind, that if it is a junker TRANSPORT, then you still need to give either a Cargo, Money or RP demand. If you are a BAF or HMS, then you can request the Junker to leave Bretonia. Once he refuses, light him up after giving the proper RP.

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[Highland Laddie]

the argument that because the community is smaller we should go back to game play that use to be worse is a silly one in my opinion.

I don't think Junkers should be allowed to pirate in-house space, because as was already stated, the natural RP consequence of this would be that they would be declared unlawful, and become no different than regular pirate factions.

that being said, I think the House police and navy ID should not let them engage quasi-lawfuls on-sight either. otherwise what is the benefit of that status ?

they should only be free to engage them if they have direct proof of them committing an unlawful act.

[Vipera Berus]

Experience has shown that the worst type of players flocks to these "borderline IDs" and you perfectly know what went down in Kusari when a number of (today permabanned) players were pretty much owning Kusari with their Hogosha Gbs, trolling the sh**** out of everybody, Mr. West-Kusari included. ------- We do not need more of these loopholes reintroduced, so that idiots can (ab)use them - because this is what will happen.

I personally played as a Junker in 4.84 - I didn't do any of these things yet you are tarring me with the players that did do these things. The rules have changed and it now allows any type of ship to take out a pirate.

If the ID could be changed to allow say cargo piracy only for both ID's then it would work quite well. That said though right now a Junker has to get a pirate to make a demand that the trader wont pay - then get the pirate to kill the trader just to get the cargo.

[Yuki]

The choice therefor is: Do you want to go full piracy, including in-house, but have the lawful factions be red to you? Or do you want to maintain your quasilawful state inside house space, which means you'd better behave in there? This choice was offered to both the Hogosha and Junkers in the past. Both chose quasilawfulness.

Oh hello, it's me.
I don't know if you've seen the Hogosha ID lately, but there is NOTHING quasi about it. Nothing on the ID allows us to do anything that the law would frown upon. We've got a lawful ID right now. Just saying.

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[9:29:51 PM] SERG: man's beauty doesnt counted

[Ortog]

Since the law can now shoot on sight on the quasi IDs, I don't see any reason for excluding the right of piracy from them, they will be shot anyway.

But, the wording should be done in a way that only cargo piracy would be allowed, to stop the 2millordie people, and since we are at it, restrict it to freighters. That way freighters will be used, there will be some rplay in it and we all get a better rplay environment.

[lIceColon]

what if the current no-pirate ID was renamed congress npc faction ID, and we had a new junker ID that resembles the old one? and congress and junkers would be deeply allied, but like variations of junkers

[Sabru]

post retracted.

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