You can't do that

[Antonio]

"Your faction can't do that."
"You can't build that there."
"Nobody [the writer of the complaint and his clique] will take you seriously."

I see what point you're trying to make, but there have to be some boundaries and common things on which we all agree.

A faction can't act dumb when making roleplay, for example if GMG were to say they own 30 battleships and are calling themselves an independent House, and if someone asked them how they obtained them they'd say "Oh, we have tons of money from the fuel business, we have a shipyard in our own system and we reconstructed the blueprints from those 2 battleships we have. Now please give us 3 stationary battleship npc bases towards the Rheinland border as we're invading it soon. It's totally okay."

No, that's not how you do it, and there are limits that we all have to agree on which mostly includes, surprisingly, common sense.

To answer your question exactly, I don't mind factions making up roleplay that makes no sense (or rather, that they see fitting but majority doesn't) as long as it sticks to the forums only. As soon as a tiny part of it gets ingame, then it becomes a problem, and needs to be reviewed. Unfortunately, this is Discovery we're talking about, so expecting common sense and roleplay that comes out of it is too much.

Edit: An example of what I wrote in the last paragraph.

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SNAC Montage Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Thruster SNAC

[Reid]

Only in very few cases one player can really dictate another´s roleplay, so what is the point of this thread (as it seems I´m missing it)?

Because there are still people trying to control a second party just because the first person doesn't like what that second party is doing, despite what the second person is doing is perfectly fine

[SnakThree]

Only in very few cases one player can really dictate another´s roleplay, so what is the point of this thread (as it seems I´m missing it)?

Because there are still people trying to control a second party just because the first person doesn't like what that second party is doing, despite what the second person is doing is perfectly fine

That is a matter of perspective. First person might see it being absolutely horrible while second party can see it perfectly fine.

So who is to say which opinion is correct?

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[Lennox]

An opinion can't, by default, be correct or incorrect, ever, except for the person representing that opinion. As you said it's personal reference...

[SnakThree]

An opinion can't, by default, be correct or incorrect, ever, except for the person representing that opinion. As you said it's personal reference...

Exactly my point.

Though on my previous post, I called out the notion of going against established lore, which Durandal implies to be perfectly fine as it is open-minded roleplay.

But there is a huge difference in creating new roleplay ( for example, finding a new way for safe planetary landing ) in comparison to roleplay that goes against rules, lore or diplomacy ( for example, roleplaying that Docking Rings can be constructed by anyone ). Well, this is at least my personal gripe based on seeing fifth faction wanting Docking Rings without involving Ageira in the last four months.

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[Lennox]

An opinion can't, by default, be correct or incorrect, ever, except for the person representing that opinion. As you said it's personal reference...

Exactly my point.

Though on my previous post, I called out the notion of going against established lore, which Durandal implies to be perfectly fine as it is open-minded roleplay.

But there is a huge difference in creating new roleplay ( for example, finding a new way for safe planetary landing ) in comparison to roleplay that goes against rules, lore or diplomacy ( for example, roleplaying that Docking Rings can be constructed by anyone ). Well, this is at least my personal gripe based on seeing fifth faction wanting Docking Rings without involving Ageira in the last four months.

Well, what you're talking about is pretty deep to start with. We know docking rings since Freelancer was first released. I agree that coming up with RP out of nowhere to change that wouldn't get anywhere if it's not precisely planned and talked through with the respective people. Which in that case would involve any faction owning such technology to begin with.

Now, not everyone is involved with something that dates back as much as docking rings, so it's fair to say that most people playing shouldn't be restricted about what their choices are. While experience has it that the occasional meta- and powergaming people are still sometimes doing their thing, it doesn't mean everyone would do it. I can understand both factions' and single players' pov. But eventually trying to control RP of someone else will only result in tears and s-alt.

The open minded part is to remind people of that and try to have fun regardless of the circumstances and adapt to the situation. People who do that will always find a solution for things. Be it agreements with other folks around or simply coming to an understanding. It's not as hard to do as some people claim. Obviously, that also means there has to be ground for common sense, as already mentioned. If that doesn't exist, then it won't work, obviously.

[Lythrilux]

I can understand Snak3's pov. Docking Rings and the like give Ageria purpose. Not just lore wise but gameplay wise too. Ageria has classically been overshadowed by factions such as DSE and USI, who are either purely trade factions or have access to mining. Ageria's advantage comes from a few several trade commodities.

What's the point in an Ageria faction at all if people can just get the things that make Ageria unique from pretty much anyone - or worse just make it themsleves.

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[Grumblesaur]

I am all for imaginative roleplay that does not go against established lore.

This may be true, but you only seem intent on upholding it if the idea was yours or if you are in charge of the people who had the idea.

Let's try to adopt one of the core principles of improv here, since that's essentially what a dynamic roleplay environment is all about. When someone approaches with you with something you didn't expect or even don't like, try to look at it from the "yes, and" viewpoint instead of the "no, stop" mindset we've seemed to slip into. You don't flat-out refuse to engage with something you dislike, because that breaks immersion, prevents the story from going anywhere, and is trying to exert a degree of control that's antithetical to the nature of an improvised activity.

So fly around with an open mind and see what RP comes your way. Shoot some people, talk to some people, and don't spend so much time worrying about how everyone else is doing their thing. Why? Because it's a game, and that means it isn't a crime if someone plays it differently than you, especially when the only person you have any right to change is yourself.

Durandal, I greatly appreciate your mention of the "yes, and" principle. Both on the server and the forums, it's very common for people to play in a way that mirrors litigation -- out of roleplay 'lawsuits' and disputes on whether the established faction or ID rules allow. In many cases, the disputes are over 'flavor' roleplay or everyday minutiae.

I think it's important to understand that the person in the other ship or behind the other forum posts isn't just your adversary or co-pilot -- they're your partner on stage. You have to give them a little room to work in their ideas and not just constantly push your own. Imagine "what if my scanners are giving the wrong reading" when you're busting someone for their cargo, especially cargo like "slaves" which, to a scanner, will just look like people. Before declaring you're going to blow someone up for trespassing, try hitting them with an interrogation and see if they give you a good reason out. Maybe you'll find something out about a larger phenomenon, like a smuggling route running right through your home system or that one of the intelligence agencies is staging covert ops at a nearby base.

On the forums, consider what the other player(s) want and why they want it. Consider what you can get out of it. If it's not a compromise, it's a missed opportunity: demanding something for nothing or creating unfair terms of the agreement is not a way to encourage a dynamic gameplay experience, but only a way to enforce the current status quo.

A principle I've adopted from a friend of mine here is the following:

• * Adhere to your own ID and faction rules as best as possible.
  
• * If someone is toeing the lines of their ID rules or doing something otherwise questionable, but you're both having a good time, don't report them. Just play along.
  

Community-building is more important than playing sanctionlancer (especially with the peak server population being half of what it was three or four years ago) or faction right X'ing everyone and their dog that does something you don't like. Sanctions are to punish people people whose mode of operating is diametrically opposed to the roleplaying nature of the server, and I'd say that's a widely known and accepted fact. However, we shouldn't be using things like faction rights, lore canonization, or roleplay threads as tools for limiting the scope of other players' agency, because that could be even more insidious than a poorly-reasoned vaporization of someone's equipment.

[The Savage]

Where is the lore behind other Docking Rings? There's lore behind Yuma's, which states that DSE built it. Which actually confirms all established lore hinting it being Ageira's technology.
What about Planet Gran Canaria? Planet Akabat? Pecos? Malta? Crete? Minor ( gone )? Tangier?

Lane Hackers.

They are former Ageira employees and mind that in original vanillia lore they had no unlawful enemies except for Xenos. Conclussion? It is pretty possible that every unlawful faction at some point might have made a deal with Lane Hackers, whose only real enemy was Ageira.

[SnakThree]

505880
NAME
Jump Gate and Trade Lane Parts

505881
INFOCARD
Jump Gate and Trade Lane Parts are exclusively manufactured at the Ageira Technologies facility in the Colorado system and are delivered to individual construction sites as necessary. These components are sealed in scanner-proof, tamper-proof white boxes that can only be opened with complex biometric keys. The boxes are also designed to detonate if opened outside of an authorized facility. Additional security measures are confidential, but Ageira has never failed to recover a missing white box.

65576
INFOCARD
Pueblo Station is the main Ageira Trade Lane and Gate component manufacturing plant. It has been in operation for centuries, but much of it's interior is still a very closely guarded secret. Components only leave the secured sections in "Whiteboxes", secure containers with an elaborate locking mechanism set to destroy its contents if any form of tampering is detected. To date, no white box is known to ever have been compromised - but to keep up with innovations, Ageira continues to refine their design, and holds an annual "Crack the Whitebox" contest to see how the boxes stand up to Liberty's finest rogues. Security around Pueblo is tight. The Lane Hackers frequently attack the facility, but their attacks are more a disruption then a serious threat to Pueblo. Rogue fighters have also on occasion threatened the facility, but aside from a major incident in 800 A.S., their attacks seem mostly focused on seizing cargo they can use. Notice: All ships should be aware that Ageira Technologies facilities are protected by private security authorized to use deadly force against any deviation from standard flight procedures.

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