Rules Update needed

[McNeo]

It was pretty odd to see a TBH in kusari space, yes. he couldv helped IMG rp wise, but not KNF. ( chek info cards)

We have to help the KNF, because:

1. We are helping them in the war against Bretonia
2. Would you rather fire at somone who is neutral to you or who you are at war with?]
3. What a great way to use lawful forces to try to weaken enemies of the Corsairs.
4. The TBH is neutral (freindly side of that i think) to the KNF (and see point 2)

Ill go check the info cards now...but i do realise the things i see all the time, like corsair legionaires in Honshu shooting up samura and the like...weird.

EDIT: In hind sight, it was a questionable desiscion to take my Corsair fighter...would have been better to take my IND fighter which was in the same area at the time...oh well, i made a mistake this time...it happens.

[Hylden]

We had a total chaos today in Chugoku.

Combined forces of KNF, CGW, BSG and TBH (the last one is totally weird RP-wise, Corsairs on the same side with lawfuls? but whatever...) comprised of two battleships, four fighters, one SVHF, clashed with a mighty overpowered fleet of two gunboats and a bomber from the NovaPG imagine that! The remnants of the scattered 'lawful' fleet 'retreated' very 'damaged'. They came back in greater number in less than 30 minutes.

Anyway, a lot of flames almost erupted if i didn't put a foot on it immediately before it even started. So, I'd have to fine everyone or no one. I'd prefer to not fine anyone.

Now to the matter - reengaging after the fight is over (regardless of the outcome). We need to make a rule to have the reengage time somewhat reasonable. I was saying at least 10-15 hours. It makes a lot more sense in RP.

Opinions please.

Ok, I agree. But not after 15 hours... 2 hours would be enough for regroup and refit. And about flames... my opinion is that I play this game for fun, not to insult people.

[Nightfall]

I definitely agree with Mal on this (and yes, I should have not been sarcastic, I'll edit that). However, The NovaPG were getting help because they were vastly outnumbered (I was on Skype with Die-Hard and a few other people, not all playing Freelancer). Otherwise they were initially 1 bomber and 2 gunboats.

Also, the 10-15 hours was intended to actually give 24 hours, no one has time to sit on the server indefinitely and fend-off people that don't have anything else to do, so it would make it like the ones that have more time to stay on the server than others. Majk, you have my support on that.


edit: on the reengaging thing, I think that the victors should be able to do what they want, for example, if the KNF won the fight, they should be able to do whatever they want in Chugoku, and the NovaPG should not use the destroyed ships at all that day (at least not in an engagement with the KNF)

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If the stars should appear one night in a thousand years, how would men believe and adore and preserve for many generations the remembrance of the city of God? - from 'Nightfall' by I. Asimov
The Outcasts consider Siniestre Nube a sacred place for several reasons. Early explorers discovered a jumphole within the depths of the cloud that leads to a strange world of ringed stars and strange craft. All ships in the burrial ground are placed facing that hole to honor the Alien Spirits. - An Outcast rumor

[Fellow Hoodlum]

Just taken me a good time to read through all this ... And to be honest I have seen cigarette papers thicker
than some of the excuses reeled put here as to why certain parties felt the need to be involved.
This is the roleplay server last time I checked ...
If you want to go PvP your BSs and whatever, there is a very good alternative just over there ...
I offered the [IND]s help to KNF as a litle reminder to the BDR about their roleplay with BSs, it was not an
excuse for every other man and his dog to stick their collective noses in on either side with big buggers.
'Friend of my friend' my arse ... EVERYONE check your info cards and standings a little better.
Now, to changing characters at a whim to suit the situation, foot down time ...
If I find [IND] members changing chars at the drop of a hat to get a little PvP in, roleplay or not, I shall be
retiring your asses from the faction. Too many people with too many chars building up.
Cull time gentlemen, no ladies involved here. Make your minds up ... Do not forget you are in [IND] at the
good grace of myself and Nightfall. If I think you are putting our good name at risk by being a character
hopper, I will ask you to go ...
There is a little too much of it around now. Roleplay is the situation you find yourself in at the time during a
conflict. Changing chars should be to aid the factions you are involved with, not to get stuck in to a fight
with perceived allies. There are some grey areas here, but I'm not going to discuss those in the daylight.
This like re-engagement, should have a sensible time limit, common sense should prevail ...
We shouldn't have to police this, you guys should be the best at this, you are on the premier roleplay server,
and you are always giving the PvPers a hard time, for good reason, to get into the roleplay.
Don't let yourselfs slide down to the same level ...
To the discussion on the table ... Time limits. Use your bloody common sense. If you get your asses decked,
back out, discuss the situation, possibly discuss it with the man in charge of the other side.
You do not get into 'Lynch mode', grab as many others as you can, and go straight back in. I can't think what
a sensible time limit is.
A day would be good, as it will give all parties involved a little time to cool off, and stop all this bollocks ...
Lunch time now, and I would like time to digest it, without having to swallow more of this ...

Hoodlum

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Some say he is a proud member of: "The most paranoid group of people in the Community."

[Korrd]

As usual, I think that there should not be a cool down time. It just kills the fun of the game if you can only fight once a day.

If the limit must be applied, I say one hour, and no more than that. Most people has little time to play, and wants to get the most fun out of the game. Apply a longer cool down time and you will be killing that fun.

Remember that Freelancer is a space combat simulator. If you remove the combat part of the title what is left is just trading (which most people hate save for a few), or flying around on your ship. No fun at all.

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[Fellow Hoodlum]

Korrd, I would love to see an hour being long enough, but as it stands currently, the fun just turns to flames.
When everyone can be a little more clear-headed, I think a continuation without a break could work.
But as it stands, the only time waiting, is for the parties to call in all their buddies ... Thats not straight re-
engagement. If you want to change the battle groups, wait a while. Otherwise its just a series of private chats
to get people to change chars.
Thats not roleplay, its a 'my fleet is now bigger and better than yours' mentality. I you lose to a lesser group
because they are actually better organised than you, swallow it and move on. Get better organised yourselves.
Don't just throw numbers at it ...

Hoodlum

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Some say he is a proud member of: "The most paranoid group of people in the Community."

[Nadir]

<snip>
I'm sure my fellow KNF leaders will have speaks with me about that. No offense to those who were so eager to jump in on our side, but I could definitely envision the flames rising, just as you did.
Again, I need to do my homework.

<snip>

What, whome, when, where, if, upon, maybe...

Um... if you go into a fight, expect to either win or loose, chase or be chased. Either. Both. Outcomes come at their own price which you must be prepared to pay. The KNF will not attack without reason, cheat, do several things which are bad, or whatever, or the offending member will be... well, horrible things will happen. 'Friends of my friend' only counts if the enemy is worth making an even bigger enemy. Avoidance and being in a permanent state of denial counts for a lot in politics. ((Apart from that, rock on.))

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ex

[majkp]

As usual, I think that there should not be a cool down time. It just kills the fun of the game if you can only fight once a day.

Korrd, I have to disagree on that one, it's not about one fight once a day, it's about re-engaging the same people after you loose. The rules should be either specified before the fight or players should follow the 1 death rule and the 'cool down' time (if it's created). I don't think it would kill the fun.

[Yngen]

We have to help the KNF, because:

1. We are helping them in the war against Bretonia
2. Would you rather fire at somone who is neutral to you or who you are at war with?]
3. What a great way to use lawful forces to try to weaken enemies of the Corsairs.
4. The TBH is neutral (freindly side of that i think) to the KNF (and see point 2)

Ill go check the info cards now...but i do realise the things i see all the time, like corsair legionaires in Honshu shooting up samura and the like...weird.

EDIT: In hind sight, it was a questionable desiscion to take my Corsair fighter...would have been better to take my IND fighter which was in the same area at the time...oh well, i made a mistake this time...it happens.

Its a pickle no doubt. This mod gets very complicated when one tries to reconcile the rumors and news stories with the info cards and NPC behaviors. I have found it useful to classify rumors as overt or covert. The relationship between the Kusari government and the Corsairs or the one between the Queen and the Outcasts I would classify as covert only. They are rumors you hear of in the bars. If there were Corsairs assisting the KNF you would here it in the news (on both sides of the war, not just one side-Bretonia and Kusari are purposefully contradicting each other's news stories over the war so only information that is repeated by both as the same is actually true.) This means a covert relationship is not reflected in any obvious way (such as assisting in battle.) As there are Corsair NPCs in Honshu hitting Kusari traders I would surmise that only the most senior leaders of the Corsairs are even aware of any such relationship and the dealings between those two parties is of the cloak and dagger sort. Sharing information or perhaps funding would be the limit as I see it to the relationship between Corsairs and KNF. It would be interesting to see however if the Corsairs are hitting only one of the two house corporations, like the Hogosha do. There is a subtle schism happening in the Kusari government and its centered around the difference between Samura and Kishiro. Samura enjoys special benefits from the Hogosha and is never pirated by them. The Hogosha are the Corsair's primary distributors of alien artifacts and so the two factions may be working together to topple Kishiro, which is quickly cornering all of the major Kusari markets. Kishiro is actively distancing itself from the Shogunate as well and coseying up to the GMG, supplying gas miners and getting cheap H-fuel in return.

Very complicated indeed, and thusly not suited to black and white combat on the server. There is too much room for confusion considering the information is vague, obscure and difficult to aquire. Your enemies will get confused and end up flaming you and you'll have another post such as this one.

Let the complicated stuff play out on the forums, but keep combat simple. If Igiss decides to write the Corsairs into the war overtly somehow (with Corsair NPCs killing Blood Dragons etc.) it will make this situation easier to play out on the server but as it is, it's merely fodder for our colorful troop of fiction writers and not official.

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[AU]Anton_Blix
-Signature by Doom

[Nightfall]

If there won't be a 'cooldown time' it will just erupt into flames. Let the factions decide if they re-engage, but let that be an agreement to do so. I for one, wouldn't like to fend off a fleet that outnumbers me tenfold wave after wave after wave after wave after wave (sounds like a broken record) until they get me and then they post a victory.

It just won't go. All we will have will be flames on all the sides.

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If the stars should appear one night in a thousand years, how would men believe and adore and preserve for many generations the remembrance of the city of God? - from 'Nightfall' by I. Asimov
The Outcasts consider Siniestre Nube a sacred place for several reasons. Early explorers discovered a jumphole within the depths of the cloud that leads to a strange world of ringed stars and strange craft. All ships in the burrial ground are placed facing that hole to honor the Alien Spirits. - An Outcast rumor